Author Topic: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?  (Read 506 times)

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« on: January 21, 2019, 06:07:28 PM »
So, I was witnessing a debate on another Christian forum about Female Ordination (this person said that those denominations which prevent female ordinations are committing great evils), but this person actually brought up something - that in Romans 16:7, Paul identifies a person as "Junia", as someone who was "of note among the Apostles."

Now, there has been scholarly debate about the identity of this individual, which can be found here:
http://www.michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/Iounian%20as%20a%20mans%20name%20in%20Rom%20167.pdf

However, I decided to see if there was any information about Junia outside of Sola Scriptura.

And yes, in Eastern Christianity, she is recognized as a Saint of the Church, by both Eastern and Oriental communions.



She is the right-most person if you don't know the Greek alphabet.

https://oca.org/saints/lives/2019/05/17/101406-st-junia

Now, these Eastern traditions identify her as a relative of Saint Paul, and they identify her as among the 70 Apostles / Disciples (The West identifies this as Disciples, the East as Apostles). She actually has relics which were discovered in Constantinople, and a Church was built on her.

Saint Paul explicitly praises her work "of note" among the Apostles.

What does this say about the theology of a male-only priesthood, if a woman was given a rank among the 70 by Christ Himself? 

Remember, this is the same rank that Saint Mark the Evangelist had.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 06:12:17 PM by TheReturnofLive »
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Offline Daniel

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2019, 08:32:07 PM »
What does this say about the theology of a male-only priesthood, if a woman was given a rank among the 70 by Christ Himself? 
Thats a big 'if'. But either way, is there any evidence to suggest that all 70 disciples were priests?
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2019, 11:20:44 PM »
What does this say about the theology of a male-only priesthood, if a woman was given a rank among the 70 by Christ Himself? 

Thats a big 'if'. But either way, is there any evidence to suggest that all 70 disciples were priests?

There is no actual proof that Junia was an "apostle." None whatsoever. This sort of claim simply plays on absence of evidence and tries to build a case on inferences.

As for a woman being ranked among the highest of Christ's disciples, what is surprising about it? Women had an active role in the spread of early Christianity, contrary to Pagan and Jewish ethos. This is acknowledged by all. Furthermore, Catholicism holds that a woman is Queen of Heaven. Not a mere apostle, mind you, but the very Queen of Heaven and dispenser of all graces. A woman, not a man. Let it sink it.

Women priests were never really part of the Christian Church. There is no sound and incontrovertible historical evidence to back it up. Case closed.
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Offline mikemac

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2019, 11:57:53 PM »
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Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners: who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

But come to think of it TheReturnofLive, why don't you ask the Eastern Orthodox?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 11:59:59 PM by mikemac »
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2019, 07:02:58 AM »
Women priests were never really part of the Christian Church. There is no sound and incontrovertible historical evidence to back it up. Case closed.

Let's be honest: the proper word is priestess. But use that one instead of "women priests" and one has unmasked the pagan charade for what it is.
 
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Offline Jacob

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2019, 09:59:57 AM »
I'm surprised no one has brought up the Magdalene, Apostle to the Apostles, or is that more an honorific than an actual status?
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Offline Gardener

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2019, 10:11:09 AM »
My favorite part of this thread is that you felt the need to specify that the only person in the icon with no beard and wearing female clothes is the woman.

Anyway, having briefly looked at the Wiki page, it seems this is a bunch of todo about nothing. Scholars who are literally experts in ancient languages disagree on what St. Paul meant by "of note", whether that meant known or part of the Apostles.

We know from Christian Tradition that there were no female clerics.

Moreover, one has to look at the contextual usage of the term Apostle, its literal usage and its honorific usage, and put that all together with everything known.

As such, the feminist, female-ordination crowd will argue one way and the rest of the world, which isn't agenda-driven, will argue the other.

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Offline aquinas138

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2019, 10:12:57 AM »
I'm surprised no one has brought up the Magdalene, Apostle to the Apostles, or is that more an honorific than an actual status?

Honorific, but such terms were not used in any iron-clad, univocal kind of way in antiquity, and they are to this day used more loosely in the Eastern churches than in the West. Anyone sent as part of the Church's mission was an apostolos (even females), each of the followers of Jesus was a mathetes (disciple). THE apostles were made priests, but that doesn't mean anyone called "apostle" was a priest. The emperor Constantine and his mother Helen have been called "equals-to-the-apostles" since antiquity; no one has ever considered them priests.
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2019, 12:02:57 PM »
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Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners: who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

But come to think of it TheReturnofLive, why don't you ask the Eastern Orthodox?

The question was already asked on another thread on another website, and I wanted to ask it here to see your thoughts.
The answers have been the same - it's either a mistake of a specific Oral Tradition (which can happen - as someone else pointed out, it's unlikely that Saint Joseph of Arimathia established Churches in England, or that the Ethiopian Orthodox have the Ark of the Covenant), with Saint Junia actually being a dude or not being part of the 70, or that the 70 chosen by Christ were not necessarily ordained.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 12:08:14 PM by TheReturnofLive »
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2019, 12:04:02 PM »
I'm surprised no one has brought up the Magdalene, Apostle to the Apostles, or is that more an honorific than an actual status?

Mary Magdalene was not part of the 70 according to Tradition; she is only called "Apostle to the Apostles" because she was the first one to testify that Christ rose from the dead to the Apostles; hence, she was "an apostle" to the "Apostles."
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: Saint Junia - a female Apostle?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 03:28:04 PM »
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Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and fellow prisoners: who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

But come to think of it TheReturnofLive, why don't you ask the Eastern Orthodox?

The question was already asked on another thread on another website, and I wanted to ask it here to see your thoughts.
The answers have been the same - it's either a mistake of a specific Oral Tradition (which can happen - as someone else pointed out, it's unlikely that Saint Joseph of Arimathia established Churches in England, or that the Ethiopian Orthodox have the Ark of the Covenant), with Saint Junia actually being a dude or not being part of the 70, or that the 70 chosen by Christ were not necessarily ordained.

I don’t get the argument. The sacramental priesthood comes to us through the 12 Apostles, and they were certainly not even ordained before the institution of the Blessed Sacrament at the Last Supper. None of the 72 can have been a priest at the time of Luke 10, and there’s nothing to suggest they were all made priests thereafter.
 
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