Author Topic: Martyrdom or suicide?  (Read 2917 times)

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Martyrdom or suicide?
« Reply #135 on: January 14, 2019, 04:02:31 PM »
The only defection that seems to have occurred is the defection of the premises that were traditionally taught and believed about the Church and the Papacy. We were completely gobsmacked by God, beaten up, humbled and punched in the face to wake up, very much like He did time and again with the ancient Jews.

What was "traditionally taught" would have to go back to the Apostles. I don't see how this Papolatrous Ultramontanism does, nor even that it follows necessarily from the dogmas of Vatican I.

On the other hand, your point, if meant as a defence of the religion of the Novus Ordo, would be ridiculous. If the Church could have been wrong about the things contradicted by Vatican II and its implementation, then she could just as well have been wrong about all of the papal powers and notions of indefectibility of the bishops upon which your arguments are logically dependent. Although maybe that is your point? Could you just come out and say it in plain English, like Maximillian does?

That is my point.

If I were to make a bet, I'd say that the future of the Catholic Church will most like be something along the lines of a "Western Orthodoxy."
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline awkwardcustomer

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Re: Martyrdom or suicide?
« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2019, 07:34:19 AM »
If I were to make a bet, I'd say that the future of the Catholic Church will most like be something along the lines of a "Western Orthodoxy."

Is that what you're hoping for?


And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Martyrdom or suicide?
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2019, 03:14:54 PM »
If I were to make a bet, I'd say that the future of the Catholic Church will most like be something along the lines of a "Western Orthodoxy."

Is that what you're hoping for?

If that's what we get in the future, it will be insurmountably better than what we have today.

The ideal, however, is for God to step in directly and annihilate the modern Church, miraculously resurrecting the old Church in the process.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline TheReturnofLive

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Re: Martyrdom or suicide?
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2019, 08:26:05 PM »
For what it's worth, even though it is kind of in poor taste - I kind of get a kick out of your profile picture, Vetus Ordo.

I shouldn't, and may God forgive me if I'm sinning, but hey - if Saint Lawrence, and subsequently the Roman Catholic Church, can have a sense of humor towards Martyrdom, I hope I'm not sinning too much.
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Martyrdom or suicide?
« Reply #139 on: January 17, 2019, 10:39:30 PM »
For what it's worth, even though it is kind of in poor taste - I kind of get a kick out of your profile picture, Vetus Ordo.

I shouldn't, and may God forgive me if I'm sinning, but hey - if Saint Lawrence, and subsequently the Roman Catholic Church, can have a sense of humor towards Martyrdom, I hope I'm not sinning too much.

Your penance is Jack Nicholson?
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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