Author Topic: Where is Satan?  (Read 303 times)

Offline TheReturnofLive

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Where is Satan?
« on: December 30, 2018, 07:54:54 PM »
Revelation 12 shows that after the War in Heaven, Michael and the Angels cast Satan down to the Earth, and even a loud voice in Heaven proclaimed

"Woe to the earth and the sea,
for the Devil has come down to you
with great fury,
because he knows he has a short time."

More than this is the fact that Satan was able to tempt Adam and Eve in the Garden, and even walk with the angels to God and ask Him about Job.

Finally, we have the fact that Satan and the demons tempt us in our day to day lives, even in some cases possessing people.


Yet despite all of this, there seems to be a strong idea in Roman Catholicism that Satan and the demons are in Hell right now, as if Hell was some kind of spiritual location, being tormented themselves and imprisoned right now, and tormenting others.

While it was a very basic theme in iconography from even the early Middle Ages of demons in Hell tormenting the damned, these images were always in the context of the Last Judgment, where Earth disappears / is "renewed" with only Heaven and Hell remaining.


Despite all of this, there are still Catholic Saints and exorcists who proclaim that Satan is in Hell right now with the demons, with some arguing that the demons fear exorcism because they will be sent back to Hell.

It should be noted that even Pope Saint Gregory the Great, in his Dialogues, rejects the notion that Hell is underneath the Earth, so i seems that Revelation 12 can't be a reference to Hell / the Underworld.


From Book IV, Chapter 42

"Touching this point I dare not rashly define anything: for some have been of opinion that hell was in some place upon the earth; and others think that it is under the earth: but then this doubt ariseth, for if it be therefore called hell, or an infernal place, because it is below, then as the earth is distant from heaven, so likewise should hell be distant from the earth: for which cause, perhaps, the Prophet saith: Thou hast delivered my soul from the lower hell; so that the higher hell may seem to be upon the earth, and the lower under the earth: and with this opinion that sentence of John agreeth, who, when he had said, that he saw a book sealed with seven seals: and that none was found worthy, neither in heaven, nor in earth, nor under the earth, to open the book, and loose the seals thereof: he added forthwith: and I wept much: which book, notwithstanding, afterward he saith was opened by a lion of the tribe of Juda. By which book, what else can be meant but the holy scripture, which our Saviour alone did open: for being made man, by his death, resurrection, and ascension, he did reveal and make manifest all those mysteries which in that book were closed and shut up. And none in heaven, because not any Angel; none upon earth, because not man living in body; not any under the earth was found worthy: because neither the souls departed from their bodies could open unto us, beside our Lord himself, the secrets of that sacred book. Seeing, then, none under the earth is said to be found worthy to open that book, I see not what doth let, but that we should believe that hell is in the lower parts, under the earth."


So,
1. If the demons are in Hell, how do they "escape" Hell?
2. How did Satan end up in Hell if they are in Hell?
3. If Satan isn't in a location of Hell, why do many Catholic Saints hold to the idea that they are in Hell tormenting people, and why do Exorcists say that they escape Hell and fear going back to Hell?
4. If Satan and his demons are in Hell, how do they tempt people?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 07:56:55 PM by TheReturnofLive »
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Where is Satan?
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2018, 10:09:11 PM »
Quote

So,
1. If the demons are in Hell, how do they "escape" Hell?
2. How did Satan end up in Hell if they are in Hell?
3. If Satan isn't in a location of Hell, why do many Catholic Saints hold to the idea that they are in Hell tormenting people, and why do Exorcists say that they escape Hell and fear going back to Hell?
4. If Satan and his demons are in Hell, how do they tempt people?
1. God permits the demons to leave Hell in order to tempt men.
2. Satan was sent to Hell when he rebelled against God; but he is not permanently confined there until the final judgement.
3. Satan and the fallen angels can move from place to place with angelic speed; they can leave Hell temporarily and "prowl about the Earth seeking the ruin of souls" (Prayer to St. Michael after Mass). They can also return. The demons that possess souls are temporarily out of Hell and the fear being sent back there, since its such a terrible place.
4. They can leave Hell and are allowed to tempt people for the spiritual good of the tempted see for example the story of Job. However, at the end of the world, the demons will be confined in Hell forever.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Gardener

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Re: Where is Satan?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2018, 10:53:14 PM »
Michael, you missed the chance to reply, “The Vatican.”
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Where is Satan?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2018, 03:12:32 AM »
The OP has never listened to an exorcist.
 

Offline Daniel

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Re: Where is Satan?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2018, 07:28:58 AM »
.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 07:38:19 AM by Daniel »
 
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Offline Gerard

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Re: Where is Satan?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2018, 10:15:53 AM »
Hell can be a place, but not necessarily limited to a space. Just as duration can occur but not necessarily in time. 

Demons don't have bodies.  So a space for them is really not relevant. 

Demons are also known to possess more than one person at the same time as well as multiple demons possessing one person. 

So, just as saints could bilocate, demons can be in Hell outside of time and space and simultaneously be allowed to interact with humans within time and space. 

Remember, a spirit doesn't have set biological parameters, it has no arms,legs, eyes etc. It's not like when we imagine ourselves being a ghost with arms and legs floating around the air. 

 

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Where is Satan?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2018, 06:53:33 PM »

It should be noted that even Pope Saint Gregory the Great, in his Dialogues, rejects the notion that Hell is underneath the Earth

From Book IV, Chapter 42

Seeing, then, none under the earth is said to be found worthy to open that book, I see not what doth let, but that we should believe that hell is in the lower parts, under the earth."

Pope Gregory says "we should believe that hell is in the lower parts, under the earth." So he does not "reject the notion."
 
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Online Acolyte

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Re: Where is Satan?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2018, 11:05:04 PM »
I thought Satan was booted before God created our universe.
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Where is Satan?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2019, 11:39:28 AM »
I thought Satan was booted before God created our universe.
Its not certain when the angels were created; but I read (I think in the Mistical City of God); that when God said "Let there be light"; that is when the angels were created. Since the trial and fall of the Angels only took a few instances, then Satan was booted on the first day of creation.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline mikemac

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Re: Where is Satan?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2019, 02:28:58 PM »
According to Apocalypse 20:7 Satan is in prison though.

"[7] And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [8] And they came upon the breadth of the earth, and encompassed the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. [9] And there came down fire from God out of heaven, and devoured them; and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast [10] And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

The thousand years spoken about here is not the Protestant 1,000 years after the second coming of Christ, but is believed to be the spiritual time from the first coming of Christ to the second coming of Christ.
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