Author Topic: All kinds of wrong  (Read 923 times)

Offline Der Polka-König

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Re: All kinds of wrong
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2018, 12:00:42 PM »
Dr Ed Peters, a canon law professor in the Archd. Detroit, has evidently received the text of this funeral homily. It's even more tame than I had anticipated. In fact, it seems like a very good, thoughtful, well-handled homily for such a difficult moment.

An excerpt from Dr Peters's take:
Quote
More importantly, and flatly contrary to how LaCuesta’s homily has been portrayed in the media, I don’t see Hell mentioned anywhere, anywhere, nor any language that relegates this poor young man thereto, and instead I see clarion reminders of the mercy of Christ recited at least half-a-dozen times. I see, too, the moral gravity of suicide—itself approaching epidemic proportions among Americans today—directly acknowledged and fears about its eternal consequences candidly admitted, but I also see consoling references to how much more God knows about one’s life than do those even closest to him and how much that deeper, likely mitigating, divine knowledge leaves the rest of us mortals, grieving a suicide, room for real hope.

https://canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2018/12/17/god-bless-fr-lacuesta/
"The Modernists pass the same judgment on the most holy Fathers of the Church as they pass on tradition; decreeing, with amazing effrontery that, while personally most worthy of all veneration, they were entirely ignorant of history and criticism, for which they are only excusable on account of the time in which they lived. Finally, the Modernists try in every way to diminish and weaken the authority of the ecclesiastical magisterium itself by sacrilegiously falsifying its origin, character, and rights, and by freely repeating the calumnies of its adversaries."

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Offline Gardener

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"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe
 
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Offline Lambda Phage

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Re: All kinds of wrong
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2018, 01:19:54 PM »
Wow. I felt some sympathy before I read Maximillian's post. Even if what the priest said was true, I thought, perhaps he should have known that everyone there would have taken in the wrong way and the message wouldn't hit. Lack of prudence, I thought.

But wow. After reading what the family had done. Just kind of makes me angry. I really wonder what the priest said. It was probably hardly anything.

That guy seriously thinks "the people" have a right to interject their own thoughts during the Mass, as if it is some sort of forum in which we all get to say something. HE is the ass.

Catholic funeral Masses are not supposed to have eulogies read by the laity.

But what can you expect when Mass is all about the people.
 

Offline Josephine87

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Re: All kinds of wrong
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2018, 01:47:04 PM »
These parents supposedly knew this coach was a bully but they still allowed four of their sons to play under him?  What this whole situation suggests is that the parents are culpable for their young son's actions but don't want to take responsibility for him.
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Offline Gardener

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Re: All kinds of wrong
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2018, 12:43:09 AM »
The sermon itself:
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/12/16/father.lacuesta.homily.maison.hullibarger.funeral.pdf

The priest was an ass.

And so are you, if you think that preaching on the evil of suicide is any way appropriate at a Funeral Mass of one who committed suicide. Believe it or not, preaching the faith does not mean being as obnoxious, rude, insensitive, bullying, and condescending as you possibly can.

So, dude, ya wanna walk that back or will you double down on your tendency towards systematic asshattery?
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe
 
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Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: All kinds of wrong
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2018, 08:07:39 AM »
The sermon itself:
http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/12/16/father.lacuesta.homily.maison.hullibarger.funeral.pdf

The priest was an ass.

And so are you, if you think that preaching on the evil of suicide is any way appropriate at a Funeral Mass of one who committed suicide. Believe it or not, preaching the faith does not mean being as obnoxious, rude, insensitive, bullying, and condescending as you possibly can.

So, dude, ya wanna walk that back or will you double down on your tendency towards systematic asshattery?

Yes, I'll walk that back to some extent, based on new facts that have come out since including the transcript.  The parents overreacted, and the homily wasn't what they made it out to be; namely, a statement that their son was probably in hell.  The homily wasn't the rude and obnoxious thing they claimed it was.  So there's that, and I'll admit I was wrong here.

But.

I still don't agree with the priest, having previously gone over what he was going to say with the parents, substituting something else on the spot and surprising the parents.  That is STILL being an ass, even if the homily wasn't what the parents claimed it was.  The parents might not have been the greatest Catholics but they are STILL entitled to A LITTLE compassion and consideration after suffering something so devastating as the suicide of one of their children.

And I still don't agree with (many of) your hypothetical defense of the priest EVEN IF the homily was exactly what the parents made it out to be.  That is to say priests can and should be rude and obnoxious in their preaching of the faith.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion that this is "systematic asshattery" on my part.  And I am certainly entitled not to care.  I'm not going to be bullied into a certain point of view via insults.  You'll actually have to convince me via reasoned argumentation.
 
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Offline Kreuzritter

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Re: All kinds of wrong
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2018, 12:05:48 PM »
The priest was an ass.

And so are you, if you think that preaching on the evil of suicide is any way appropriate at a Funeral Mass of one who committed suicide. Believe it or not, preaching the faith does not mean being as obnoxious, rude, insensitive, bullying, and condescending as you possibly can.

Only to the overly-sentitive, molly-coddled, self-entitled generation of estrogen-dominant man-children to which you undoubtedly belong.
 

Offline Lambda Phage

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Re: All kinds of wrong
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2018, 08:02:19 AM »
They didn't "go over it" with the priest. They told the priest what to say, per the father's quotes in the news. That's another mind boggling aspect of this, that anyone would think they have the right to just tell the priest what to say.

I would hate it if I was a priest and a layman came into my office telling me how to preach down to the specifics of what I should say. That is horribly manipulative.