Author Topic: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.  (Read 1044 times)

Offline Xavier

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Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« on: December 02, 2018, 01:01:12 AM »
On the feast of St. Andrew the Apostle, who is considered the patron of the See of Constantinople, the Holy Father greeted Patriarch Bartholomew and spoke about the prospects of Catholic-Orthodox unity. Although the modern Church does not pursue the path of unity in the perfect doctrinal way that the Council of Lyons II and of Florence did, still there is some chance the Orthodox Churches, over the course of the next decades, will think better of remaining separate and return to Catholic unity. Orthodox basically have to accept and profess mainly 3 de fide dogmas to be received into the communion of the Catholic Church.

(1) the Immaculate Conception (2) the Filioque and (3) Purgatory, beside the Petrine primacy of jurisdiction exercised by the Pope.

"The Pope expressed his desire to work for full communion between the Catholic and Orthodox churches

On the feast of St. Andrew the Apostle, Pope Francis told the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople that while the Holy Spirit has in recent years prompted a “fraternal dialogue” between the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, both Churches should work to achieve full communion with one another ..."

https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/12/01/pope-francis-calls-for-unity-with-orthodox-churches/

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:03:18 AM by Xavier »
Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING: "My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby Offer my whole Life to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with my life, I place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices, and the suffering of my entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father and Priests, for good Priestly vocations, and for all souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept my life Sacrifice and my offerings and give me Your grace that I may persevere obediently until my death." Amen. https://www.avemariamaternostra.com/life-offering-promises.html It is recommended that you make this Life Offering as soon as you feel ready, and to renew it from time to time.

Please read the Blessed Mother's promises in the link: those who make it seriously will face no Purgatory (promise 5) since they would have completed it here, will have all their loved ones released from Purgatory the day they offer their life with intent to persevere (promise 4), and can save the souls of all their family members in due time by their life offering (promise 3). It will benefit all souls who have ever lived until time's end (promise 2) A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. Inflamed in Large Letters of Love, you will have your name written in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary forever (promise 1).
 

Offline Sempronius

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2018, 01:04:55 AM »
What are the their demands for unity?
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2018, 10:37:03 AM »
First before we get the Orthodox to convert, we have to get the Pope and the people at the Vatican to convert to Catholicism.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 

Offline Xavier

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2018, 11:11:43 AM »
Ha! Yes, but officially newChurch still teaches (e.g. in the new Catechism), the dogmas of, for e.g., the Immaculate Conception, Filioque, Purgatory etc that the Orthodox deny.

Quote from: CCC
"247 The affirmation of the filioque does not appear in the Creed confessed in 381 at Constantinople. But Pope St. Leo I, following an ancient Latin and Alexandrian tradition, had already confessed it dogmatically in 447,76 even before Rome, in 451 at the Council of Chalcedon, came to recognize and receive the Symbol of 381. The use of this formula in the Creed was gradually admitted into the Latin liturgy (between the eighth and eleventh centuries). The introduction of the filioque into the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed by the Latin liturgy constitutes moreover, even today, a point of disagreement with the Orthodox Churches.
248 At the outset the Eastern tradition expresses the Father's character as first origin of the Spirit. By confessing the Spirit as he "who proceeds from the Father", it affirms that he comes from the Father through the Son.77 The Western tradition expresses first the consubstantial communion between Father and Son, by saying that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque). It says this, "legitimately and with good reason",78 for the eternal order of the divine persons in their consubstantial communion implies that the Father, as "the principle without principle",79 is the first origin of the Spirit, but also that as Father of the only Son, he is, with the Son, the single principle from which the Holy Spirit proceeds.80 This legitimate complementarity, provided it does not become rigid, does not affect the identity of faith in the reality of the same mystery confessed.

71. Nicene Creed; cf. DS 150.
72 Council of Toledo VI (638): DS 490.
73 Council of Toledo XI (675): DS 527.
74 Nicene Creed; cf. DS 150.
75 Council of Florence (1439): DS 1300-1301.
76 Cf. Leo I, Quam laudabiliter (447): DS 284.
77 Jn 15:26; cf. AG 2.
78 Council of Florence (1439): DS 1302.
79 Council of Florence (1442): DS 1331.
80. Council of Lyons II (1274): DS 850."

These things were more clearly taught in Florence. Some Eastern Churches accepted it eventually (e.g. at the Union of Brest) and became Catholic, while others including most of the Greek Church remained in schism as we know. Lyons II and Florence were the major re-union attempts. There is a prophesied Ecumenical Council at which "The Greeks will return to the obedience of the Roman Church." Probably after some kind of purification.

Their demands, Sempronius? I dunno that they have ever given an official list. But Patriarch Bartholomew has said, for e.g., that Orthodoxy disagrees with the Immaculate Conception.

https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/06/patriarch-bartholomew-on-immaculate.html?m=1

When Russia is consecrated to the Immaculate Heart by the Pope and the Bishops, our Orthodox brethren will recognize their mistake on this point, return home to Rome, and become Catholic.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING: "My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby Offer my whole Life to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with my life, I place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices, and the suffering of my entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father and Priests, for good Priestly vocations, and for all souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept my life Sacrifice and my offerings and give me Your grace that I may persevere obediently until my death." Amen. https://www.avemariamaternostra.com/life-offering-promises.html It is recommended that you make this Life Offering as soon as you feel ready, and to renew it from time to time.

Please read the Blessed Mother's promises in the link: those who make it seriously will face no Purgatory (promise 5) since they would have completed it here, will have all their loved ones released from Purgatory the day they offer their life with intent to persevere (promise 4), and can save the souls of all their family members in due time by their life offering (promise 3). It will benefit all souls who have ever lived until time's end (promise 2) A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. Inflamed in Large Letters of Love, you will have your name written in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary forever (promise 1).
 

Offline Guapo

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2018, 12:12:31 PM »
Patriarch Bartholomew is a NWO tool who is eyeing up to 20 Church properties in Ukraine and
undermining the peace agreement viz a viz Minsk agreement and above all Ukrainian Orthodox
Church will not be given the autonomy it wanted in the first place. Ukraine always ends up with
the worst end of the stick.
 

Offline Guapo

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2018, 12:28:25 PM »

Should be filed under Desperation.

Founder of Uki Schism is jailed so much for unity.

Vikenty Chekalin who stood at the origins of the current Church schism in Ukraine was sentenced for four years and three months in prison in Australia.

Southport District Court in Queensland sentenced 67-year-old Vincent Berg (alias Vikenty Chekalin) for repeated fraud and forgery, according to the Romfea Greek church news agency.

Chekalin, who moved from Russia in the early 1990s, presented to the Australian authorities a fake doctor's diploma, which allowed him to get a job as a psychiatrist.

In 1990, Chekalin ordained "bishops" of the self-proclaimed Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church, being deprived of dignity in the canonical Ukrainian Church for immoral acts. Before that, in 1987, he was sentenced to three years in prison for molesting minors, but in 1988 he was released early.

In 1991, the Greek Catholic Metropolitan of Lvov Vladimir Sternyuk took Chekalin to the jurisdiction of the UGCC and appointed him to the post of head of the so-called "Russian Orthodox Catholic Church". Soon after that, Chekalin emigrated to Australia where he changed his name and became a pastor of one of the Protestant churches.
 

Offline Gardener

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 12:42:26 PM »
If, and when, this were to occur, the Orthodox owe it to their flock to explain either:
{
1) Why they and so many of the men they revere in spiritual matters were wrong

OR

2) How to understand why there was a misunderstanding and miscommunication and how to understand it
}

Explain the true understanding in language which makes sense to their faithful.

If they go making autonomous declarations without doing this, they're essentially putting their "children" through a spiritual divorce process and will lose many to the inevitable hardliner schism which would come.

This process should take a minimum of 3 years, perhaps 5. In turn, the RCC should unilaterally recognize them in the interim.
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Online Philip G.

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2018, 01:30:57 PM »
The orthodox will have to repent of their approval of contraceptive use, and accept catholic church teaching.  They will have to repent of their divorce approval, and accept catholic church teaching.  They probably have other skeletons in their matrimonial closet that will need to be cleaned out, but at the moment this is all I can think of. 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 
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Offline The Curt Jester

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2018, 03:08:38 PM »
I was thinking that maybe Francis should begin with NOT promoting disunity among those who are already Catholic before he attempts anything like this.
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Kneel now, and make for us a prayer!"

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Offline james03

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2018, 04:07:56 PM »
Quote
They will have to repent of their divorce approval, and accept catholic church teaching.

Dude, you are so 1950's, get with the program.  Peter has spoken, Jesus lied, divorce is perfectly fine.  That IS the catholic position.

So this makes logical sense.  Divorce was probably the main impediment, since you can't paper around it with theological language.  Now that the catholic Church has accepted the Orthodox position, unification is the next logical step.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

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Offline Sempronius

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2018, 04:24:53 PM »
Quote
They will have to repent of their divorce approval, and accept catholic church teaching.

Dude, you are so 1950's, get with the program.  Peter has spoken, Jesus lied, divorce is perfectly fine.  That IS the catholic position.

So this makes logical sense.  Divorce was probably the main impediment, since you can't paper around it with theological language.  Now that the catholic Church has accepted the Orthodox position, unification is the next logical step.

A Catholic priest can still confidently preach from the pulpit that divorce is wrong. Once the Church officially declares divorce is tolerated ”in some extreme cases”, then we’ll have big problems.
 

Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2018, 09:06:18 PM »
A Catholic priest can still confidently preach from the pulpit that divorce is wrong. Once the Church officially declares divorce is tolerated ”in some extreme cases”, then we’ll have big problems.

Well you have big problems, and have for some time.  Divorce and remarriage under "oekonomia" was the official position of the Byzantine Church even after reunion with Rome, and continued for centuries afterwards without opposition from Rome, until the 1917 promulgation of the Code of Canon Law.
 
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Online Philip G.

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2018, 09:26:59 PM »
The catholic church also has its own matrimony problems.  The idea that we presume validity of marriages outside the church seems crazy to me.  Which, is probably a result of the marriage the church has tried to perform with the state in pursuit of empire ever since Charlemagne.  The orthodox are not the only ones with matrimony problems stemming from relations with the state.
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2018, 10:02:42 AM »
"Both Churches should work to achieve full communion with one another."

This programme has been going on for almost 60 years now. No results whatsoever.

It's mere empty rhetoric at this point, especially given the collapse of the Western church in the decades following Vatican II.
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Offline St.Justin

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Re: Pope Francis calls for Unity with the Orthodox Churches.
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2018, 11:34:47 AM »
The catholic church also has its own matrimony problems.  The idea that we presume validity of marriages outside the church seems crazy to me.  Which, is probably a result of the marriage the church has tried to perform with the state in pursuit of empire ever since Charlemagne.  The orthodox are not the only ones with matrimony problems stemming from relations with the state.

Matrimony is the only Sacrament in which the couple are the administrators. The Priest only acts as a witness. so it is entirely possible for there to be  valid marriages outside of the Church.
 
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