Author Topic: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)  (Read 633 times)

Offline Non Nobis

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Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« on: November 08, 2018, 01:04:40 AM »
At the end I copied the original post on this issue (old thread from January 2018) - look there for the original story.  We need prayers again, as our new deadline is 12/31/18.

Here (FYI) is a long recent facebook post that describes our current situation and provides much information about the historical standards that are SUPPOSED to be followed for this chapel.

WILL THEY GUT IT, TOO? San Diego's historic The North Chapel is shutting down on December 31st. We just learned that it will reopen in the spring, but if so, when it reopens in the Spring, will it be a hallow shell of it's former self?

BRICK [https://www.facebook.com/BRICK.828]just posted, but quickly took down their plans for opening a 'new location' called 'CHAPEL' in the SPRING of 2019- it looks exactly like the U.S. Navy Naval Training Center's North Chapel. If this is the same chapel, we worry that in even just calling it 'CHAPEL' they already aren't preserving it's US Naval History. The company, 828 Venues, is known for their empty venues (Photos below from and by https://828venues.com/) Look at their venues, they are all taken down to the bricks inside...Do you think they will respect and preserve the pews, altar, pulpit, organ and all historic features of this sacred building according to the Secretary's standards of treatment of historic places?

Let's ask that they will be good stewards and keep all the woodwork (including the bolted down pews) and let the community continue to rent at little to no charge, as originally agreed upon when McMillin took over NTC Park Liberty Station

How did we get here? How is all of this happening? After years of peace and usage of the chapel for services, weddings, funerals, meeting places, choir concerts, etc. They're closing the North Chapel, NTC Events was replaced by Moniker Events as the North Chapel property manager and now, BRICK, known for gutting buildings and turning them into hallow event venues is announcing the North Chapel as their new venue in Liberty Station

How is it that the San Diegans in the 1940's would give this land to Uncle Sam's navy, Uncle Sam would give it to the City of San Diego, the City of San Diego, California would give it to McMillin, mcmillin llc would SELL it to a developer in Irvine Pendulum Property Partners and here we are today, hoping that BRICK gives a care about community and people and history and hearts and will PRESERVE the North Chapel. Please don't be evil, Brick. Give San Diego, back it's precious historical building, in tact. Please don't gut our history. This is a historic building and should not be gutted. Leave the chapel the way it should be.

City of San Diego save our history!!!

BRICK, please don't desecrate this sacred space. There isn't a lot of sacred history in San Diego. Don't make the extraordinary, just another ordinary. Please!

+++
The United States Secretary of the Interior Standards for the Treatment of Historic Properties, 1995

Standards for Preservation

1. A property will be used as it was historically, or be given a new use that maximizes the retention of distinctive materials, features, spaces, and spatial relationships. Where a treatment and use have not been identified, a property will be protected and, if necessary, stabilized until additional work may be undertaken.

2. The historic character of a property will be retained and preserved. The replacement of intact or repairable historic materials or alteration of features, spaces, and spatial relationships that characterize a property will be avoided.

3. Each property will be recognized as a physical record of its time, place, and use. Work needed to stabilize, consolidate, and conserve existing historic materials and features will be physically and visually compatible, identifiable upon close inspection, and properly documented for future research.

4. Changes to a property that have acquired historic significance in their own right will be retained and preserved.

5. Distinctive materials, features, finishes, and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a property will be preserved.

6. The existing condition of historic features will be evaluated to determine the appropriate level of intervention needed. Where the severity of deterioration requires repair or limited replacement of a distinctive feature, the new material will match the old in composition, design, color, and texture.

7. Chemical or physical treatments, if appropriate, will be undertaken using the gentlest means possible. Treatments that cause damage to historic materials will not be used.

8. Archeological resources will be protected and preserved in place. If such resources must be disturbed, mitigation measures will be undertaken.

Standards for Rehabilitation

1. A property will be used as it was historically or be given a new use that requires minimal change to its distinctive materials, features, spaces, and spatial relationships.

2. The historic character of a property will be retained and preserved. The removal of distinctive materials or alteration of features, spaces, and spatial relationships that characterize a property will be avoided.

3. Each property will be recognized as a physical record of its time, place, and use. Changes that create a false sense of historical development, such as adding conjectural features or elements from other historic properties, will not be undertaken.

4. Changes to a property that have acquired historic significance in their own right will be retained and preserved.

5. Distinctive materials, features, finishes, and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a property will be preserved.

6. Deteriorated historic features will be repaired rather than replaced. Where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature, the new feature will match the old in design, color, texture, and, where possible, materials. Replacement of missing features will be substantiated by documentary and physical evidence.

7. Chemical or physical treatments, if appropriate, will be undertaken using the gentlest means possible. Treatments that cause damage to historic materials will not be used.

8. Archeological resources will be protected and preserved in place. If such resources must be disturbed, mitigation measures will be undertaken.

9. New additions, exterior alterations, or related new construction will not destroy historic materials, features, and spatial relationships that characterize the property. The new work will be differentiated from the old and will be compatible with the historic materials, features, size, scale and proportion, and massing to protect the integrity of the property and its environment.

10. New additions and adjacent or related new construction will be undertaken in such a manner that, if removed in the future, the essential form and integrity of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired.

Here is information from the past (showing how we won the FIRST battle for the chapel).

Note that I think you can still sign the ipetition if you have not done so already.

My SSPX St. John Bosco Mission chapel in San Diego has been renting a beautiful historic chapel building (it is also used by the CMRI and by other religious groups).  But the new owner of the building, the Corky McMillin Company, will stop renting it out after June 30, 2018, and plans to turn it into a rock concert venue and/or restaurant - believe it or not.

Please sign this petition to stop this from happening - and pray.
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/preserve-a-historic-san-diego-site-north-chapel



Pray that we will not lose our home, or will find another one if that is God's will.

Thank you.

We (or rather, Our Lady) won the battle! We'll be able to rent the chapel through the end of 2018. We are still fighting for more - permanent legal protection of the historic building for religious use, the purpose for which it was built.

Pray to Our Lady to help us win the war! https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=21094.0
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 01:13:17 AM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 
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Offline Christe Eleison

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2018, 01:38:51 AM »
At the end I copied the original post on this issue (old thread from January 2018) - look there for the original story.  We need prayers again, as our new deadline is 12/31/18.

Here (FYI) is a long recent facebook post that describes our current situation and provides much information about the historical standards that are SUPPOSED to be followed for this chapel.

WILL THEY GUT IT, TOO? San Diego's historic The North Chapel is shutting down on December 31st. We just learned that it will reopen in the spring, but if so, when it reopens in the Spring, will it be a hallow shell of it's former self?

BRICK [https://www.facebook.com/BRICK.828]just posted, but quickly took down their plans for opening a 'new location' called 'CHAPEL' in the SPRING of 2019- it looks exactly like the U.S. Navy Naval Training Center's North Chapel. If this is the same chapel, we worry that in even just calling it 'CHAPEL' they already aren't preserving it's US Naval History. The company, 828 Venues, is known for their empty venues (Photos below from and by https://828venues.com/) Look at their venues, they are all taken down to the bricks inside...Do you think they will respect and preserve the pews, altar, pulpit, organ and all historic features of this sacred building according to the Secretary's standards of treatment of historic places?

Let's ask that they will be good stewards and keep all the woodwork (including the bolted down pews) and let the community continue to rent at little to no charge, as originally agreed upon when McMillin took over NTC Park Liberty Station

How did we get here? How is all of this happening? After years of peace and usage of the chapel for services, weddings, funerals, meeting places, choir concerts, etc. They're closing the North Chapel, NTC Events was replaced by Moniker Events as the North Chapel property manager and now, BRICK, known for gutting buildings and turning them into hallow event venues is announcing the North Chapel as their new venue in Liberty Station

How is it that the San Diegans in the 1940's would give this land to Uncle Sam's navy, Uncle Sam would give it to the City of San Diego, the City of San Diego, California would give it to McMillin, mcmillin llc would SELL it to a developer in Irvine Pendulum Property Partners and here we are today, hoping that BRICK gives a care about community and people and history and hearts and will PRESERVE the North Chapel. Please don't be evil, Brick. Give San Diego, back it's precious historical building, in tact. Please don't gut our history. This is a historic building and should not be gutted. Leave the chapel the way it should be.

City of San Diego save our history!!!

BRICK, please don't desecrate this sacred space. There isn't a lot of sacred history in San Diego. Don't make the extraordinary, just another ordinary. Please!

+++
The United States Secretary of the Interior Standards for the Treatment of Historic Properties, 1995

Standards for Preservation

1. A property will be used as it was historically, or be given a new use that maximizes the retention of distinctive materials, features, spaces, and spatial relationships. Where a treatment and use have not been identified, a property will be protected and, if necessary, stabilized until additional work may be undertaken.

2. The historic character of a property will be retained and preserved. The replacement of intact or repairable historic materials or alteration of features, spaces, and spatial relationships that characterize a property will be avoided.

3. Each property will be recognized as a physical record of its time, place, and use. Work needed to stabilize, consolidate, and conserve existing historic materials and features will be physically and visually compatible, identifiable upon close inspection, and properly documented for future research.

4. Changes to a property that have acquired historic significance in their own right will be retained and preserved.

5. Distinctive materials, features, finishes, and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a property will be preserved.

6. The existing condition of historic features will be evaluated to determine the appropriate level of intervention needed. Where the severity of deterioration requires repair or limited replacement of a distinctive feature, the new material will match the old in composition, design, color, and texture.

7. Chemical or physical treatments, if appropriate, will be undertaken using the gentlest means possible. Treatments that cause damage to historic materials will not be used.

8. Archeological resources will be protected and preserved in place. If such resources must be disturbed, mitigation measures will be undertaken.

Standards for Rehabilitation

1. A property will be used as it was historically or be given a new use that requires minimal change to its distinctive materials, features, spaces, and spatial relationships.

2. The historic character of a property will be retained and preserved. The removal of distinctive materials or alteration of features, spaces, and spatial relationships that characterize a property will be avoided.

3. Each property will be recognized as a physical record of its time, place, and use. Changes that create a false sense of historical development, such as adding conjectural features or elements from other historic properties, will not be undertaken.

4. Changes to a property that have acquired historic significance in their own right will be retained and preserved.

5. Distinctive materials, features, finishes, and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a property will be preserved.

6. Deteriorated historic features will be repaired rather than replaced. Where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature, the new feature will match the old in design, color, texture, and, where possible, materials. Replacement of missing features will be substantiated by documentary and physical evidence.

7. Chemical or physical treatments, if appropriate, will be undertaken using the gentlest means possible. Treatments that cause damage to historic materials will not be used.

8. Archeological resources will be protected and preserved in place. If such resources must be disturbed, mitigation measures will be undertaken.

9. New additions, exterior alterations, or related new construction will not destroy historic materials, features, and spatial relationships that characterize the property. The new work will be differentiated from the old and will be compatible with the historic materials, features, size, scale and proportion, and massing to protect the integrity of the property and its environment.

10. New additions and adjacent or related new construction will be undertaken in such a manner that, if removed in the future, the essential form and integrity of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired.

Here is information from the past (showing how we won the FIRST battle for the chapel).

Note that I think you can still sign the ipetition if you have not done so already.

My SSPX St. John Bosco Mission chapel in San Diego has been renting a beautiful historic chapel building (it is also used by the CMRI and by other religious groups).  But the new owner of the building, the Corky McMillin Company, will stop renting it out after June 30, 2018, and plans to turn it into a rock concert venue and/or restaurant - believe it or not.

Please sign this petition to stop this from happening - and pray.
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/preserve-a-historic-san-diego-site-north-chapel



Pray that we will not lose our home, or will find another one if that is God's will.

Thank you.

We (or rather, Our Lady) won the battle! We'll be able to rent the chapel through the end of 2018. We are still fighting for more - permanent legal protection of the historic building for religious use, the purpose for which it was built.

Pray to Our Lady to help us win the war! https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=21094.0


 :pray1: :pray2: :pray3:
 
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Offline Lynne

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2018, 08:37:54 AM »
 :pray3:
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
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Offline Gardener

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2018, 09:12:08 AM »
 :pray1:
Lent: Only on Sundays.

"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2018, 12:15:32 AM »
Finally it looks like our congressman and city council are looking into this seriously.  This just appeared in our local newspaper: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/watchdog/sd-me-north-chapel-20181110-story.html?fbclid=IwAR2rofMQW6GYd2zL4bnvttzpzW0KFNdA6RL5cEN4iy-X9eBiSIQP_02nJ-g

Keep praying...
« Last Edit: November 11, 2018, 12:20:58 AM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2018, 12:41:03 AM »
The issue was discussed in a council meeting, where a couple of people from our church, and others concerned, had 2 minutes each to present our case. As a result, one council member has sent an official letter to the city district attorney (cc'ing the mayor) detailing what needs to be investigated regarding the leasing and use of the chapel, given its historical status. It's good to know that SOMEONE in city hall is on our side!

Keep praying...
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 10:08:44 PM »
There has been a letter of definite support from the mayor's  office, which is excellent.  Thank you, Blessed Mother.

But the CEO of the new owner's management company wrote a nasty "sour grapes" letter in response, saying that they WERE going to allow us to use the chapel "gratis" for a while, but now have taken away this offer until legal requirements have been clarified. It seems the requirements would restrict their use of the building more than they had hoped.

So the fight isn't over and we still need prayers.
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 
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Offline spasiisochrani

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 11:54:13 PM »
What you're doing is harassing a for-profit corporation and trying to restrict their use of their property.  If you really want this building, you should do the honorable thing and make an offer to buy it.  If you can't afford to do that, you probably need to find another building.
 

Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2019, 10:41:56 PM »
Jan 1, 2019 - Our lease on the chapel ran out at the end of the year. We had the same beautiful Mass of the ages today, but in humbler circumstances.   For details, some hope for the future, and a request for further prayers: https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=21094.msg465689#msg465689
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 

Offline martin88nyc

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2019, 12:26:00 AM »
 :pray1:
"These things I have spoken to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you shall have distress: but have confidence, I have overcome the world." John 16:33
 

Offline Lynne

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2019, 09:18:45 AM »
 :pray3:
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Prayerful

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Re: Save SSPX chapel building in San Diego! (may shut down Dec 31)
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2019, 12:35:28 PM »
 :pray1:
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.