Author Topic: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos  (Read 12292 times)

Offline Miriam_M

  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 6130
  • Thanked: 3997 times
  • Never have been "MiriamB"
  • Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2018, 10:42:50 PM »
Am I the only poster who really wishes that every piece of Catholic News on SD did not devolve into an alley brawl over Fatima?

I thank James for registering his opinion about the posted article.
 
The following users thanked this post: MundaCorMeum, Blue Violet

Offline Elizabeth

  • Mary Garden
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 4989
  • Thanked: 2078 times
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2018, 01:15:53 PM »
Miriam, you are not the only one.  It makes me feel ancient.
  Maybe it's what Fr. Rip talks about: after 100 years the memory (of an important thing) just goes down the rabbit hole ? 
 

Online awkwardcustomer

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2564
  • Thanked: 1029 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2018, 10:34:59 AM »
It should be front page news across the world.

Fatima - probably the biggest deception ever perpetrated on the Church.

The fact that it succeeded is one of the reasons I'm convinced we're at the end, that it's all over.
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline mikemac

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 7248
  • Thanked: 3432 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2018, 12:24:03 PM »
^ Says the Protestant
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 

Online awkwardcustomer

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2564
  • Thanked: 1029 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2018, 06:28:09 AM »
Another reason, courtesy of Mikemac.

It's over.  There can be no coming back from this.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 06:30:24 AM by awkwardcustomer »
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline Kreuzritter

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1384
  • Thanked: 952 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #50 on: November 07, 2018, 07:11:55 AM »
Another one who places the conclusions of his reasoning ahead of his faith, never mind that this reasoning is filled with several inferences of a subjective nature which betray that these conclusions are just what he wants them to be. It’s apparent you’re desperate for a way out, one that will leave you feeling morally and intellectually justified, and it comes as no surprise that you’ve found it.

Nietzsche was so right about this aspect of human nature.
 
The following users thanked this post: Blue Violet

Offline Kreuzritter

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1384
  • Thanked: 952 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #51 on: November 07, 2018, 07:18:21 AM »
^ Says the Protestant

The spirit of readiness to publically ridicule Fatima, not just treat it with a fair private skepticism, is inevitably going to manifest in a falling away from the Catholic church and probably in time the Christian faith altogether - not because Fatima is necessarily some gospel truth, but because the mindset and intention behind the one is the same as that behind the other.
 
The following users thanked this post: mikemac, Lynne, Maximilian, Blue Violet

Online awkwardcustomer

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2564
  • Thanked: 1029 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #52 on: November 07, 2018, 08:46:40 AM »
Classic cult-like behaviour coming from above posters.

Sr Lucy implies, in her own words, that she broke the oath she made to the Canonical Enquiry into Fatima. What's more, she openly admits that she withheld information from the Church.  This is ignored or glossed over.  The Cult is always right even when facts demonstrate otherwise.

Then shoot the messenger. Anyone who criticises the Cult belongs to the dark side.

It's pathetic. 
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 08:53:13 AM by awkwardcustomer »
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline Gardener

  • Drink the poison yourself.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8597
  • Thanked: 6107 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #53 on: November 07, 2018, 09:51:12 AM »
If Fatima proposed nothing new (as it can't, since Public revelation ceased with the death of St. John), then anyone adhering to the Catholic Faith as always taught is in line with Fatima, simply. Disbelieving or believing in Fatima of itself is a moot point and would fall into an issue of error of fact (whether or not Fatima was a legitimate apparition of Our Lady).

As for me, I was never comfortable with the para-dogmatic weight of Fatima in its adherents who, more and more, seem to point and sift religion at Fatima rather than point and sift Fatima at religion.

Between the rabid, overzealous Fatima adherents -- off-putting in itself -- combined with unanswered questions and accusations of Sr. Lucy's seemingly obedience-violating withholding of information during an official inquiry -- I find it even more suspicious. Combine that with Gerard's position that it's an attempt by the Devil to force the hand of the Pope on doing something, thereby gaining some sort of control, I find Fatima even more suspicious. Especially given the lack of actual information regarding Fatima and things like the so-called Secrets (yet to be revealed in the 3rd).

It would seem like a Pyrrhic victory with all the extra rosaries being prayed, etc. But what if the Devil is willing to suffer those blows in order to get the white whale: the Papacy.

If he can establish that precedent, a syncretic "approved" apparition is on the way that the Pope must obey. And anyone who denies it will be a promethean neo-pelagian deplorable par-excellence.

I don't need a lying, story telling Portuguese girl to tell me to adhere to the Faith, pray the Rosary, and shun sin.

If Fatima is something beyond that, then I lack the desire and intellect for it, and it's bad for me anyway since it goes beyond what I, the individual, am responsible for in this life, and it equally doesn't apply to me.

I don't see why this is such a hard concept, except it cuts the cult's influence at its knees.

"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.

Woe is me, because I have held my peace. Isaiah 6
 
The following users thanked this post: Innocent Smith, Glencora

Offline Innocent Smith

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 941
  • Thanked: 484 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #54 on: November 07, 2018, 10:02:39 AM »
^ Says the Protestant

The spirit of readiness to publically ridicule Fatima, not just treat it with a fair private skepticism, is inevitably going to manifest in a falling away from the Catholic church and probably in time the Christian faith altogether - not because Fatima is necessarily some gospel truth, but because the mindset and intention behind the one is the same as that behind the other.

What you refer to as ridicule is, for the most part, charitable skepticism because some are over the top concerning Fatima and never shut up about it. The answer to every problem is Fatima. It is literally the cause, and solution to, all of life's problems. Much like Homer Simpson once commented on the nature of alcohol.

For those who have a mature faith based on study and participation in the Sacramental life based on public revelation, ridiculing Fatima should have no effect. I could see it shattering the faith of those on the other side though, Those who never tire of talking about it.

Luckily, their appears to be a stalemate and a way to continue to believe Fatima no matter what logic is thrown at them so it shouldn't be a big problem for them. But, should they ever begin to doubt, they will be the first ones to overthrow it all over Fatima. And that's why they are so stubborn about it. Because deep down they know their Faith is immature and based on a house of cards.



I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.
 

Offline Xavier

  • Mary, Queen and Protectress of our Faith, protect our Faith from all the Satanic threats to it. Mary, Refuge of Holy Love, grant us final perseverance in Grace and Holy Love forever.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 4082
  • Thanked: 3094 times
  • Indian Catholic
    • Marian Apostolate Life Offering.
  • Religion: Catholic Christian (Roman Rite Latin Traditionalist)
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #55 on: November 07, 2018, 10:36:00 AM »
Our Lady's apparition at Fatima is a great gift from God, and that's how great Saints regarded it; "Padre Pio daily expressed his special devotion to Our Lady of Fatima as he knelt and prayed at Her shrine within the monastery, before a large picture surrounded by burning candles. Indeed, he credited the Virgin of Fatima with saving his life." http://www.piercedhearts.org/theology_heart/padre_pio_our_lady_of_fatima.htm  nobody started critiquing Fatima until some 5 or 10 years ago after despair about the crisis. Also read about St. Maximillian Kolbe and the Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima. Not to mention the Popes and other holy and heroic men. Finally, the saintly lives of the children; Jacinta and Francesco gave so many signs of holiness for children so young that the theologians sent to investigate were astonished and full Church approval came very quickly. Fatima is fully approved by the Church, and approved apparitions, according to St. Montfort, St. Alphonsus etc are given an assent called "pious faith". To refuse to believe in them and attribute them to Satan is a mark of impiety and of temerity.

It was instrumental in defining the Catholic response against Communism, and it was also a warning against false ecumenism, and a preparation for a real triumph of the Church by the return of the Orthodox to the Catholic Church. All these graces would have been obtained through the Papal and Episcopal Consecration. As Jesus willed to honor the French Monarchy by asking France to be consecrated to His Heart, He asked Russia to be consecrated by the Pope to honor the Papacy; and also to defeat Communism and so that the Russian Orthodox would return to the Church. Also, the devil is never going to promote the Rosary. Remember when St. Dominic and the faithful prayed the Rosary, many demons were forced to flee. The Rosary always drives out Satan, and as the Lord so rightly said, Satan would not drive out himself; and therefore it is clear Our Lady of Fatima, where the Rosary, beside devotion to the Immaculate Heart, and consecration to Mary, is so much promoted, cannot be from Satan; but rather is from God.
Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ Please pray this daily and you and your family will be saved. You will avoid Purgatory.

Daily Morning Offering: O my God, in union with the Immaculate Heart of Mary,  I offer Thee the Precious Blood of Jesus from all the Altars  throughout the world, joining with It the offering of my every thought, word, and action of this day. I desire to gain every Indulgence and Merit I can, offering them, together with myself, to Mary Immaculate, Whom Thou hast appointed the dispenser of the merits of Thy Precious Blood, especially by means of this Scapular  [Here kiss your Brown Scapular] that She may best apply them to the interests of Thy Most Sacred Heart. Amen.

Consecration to Our Blessed Mother: My Queen, my Mother! I give myself entirely to Thee, and to show my devotion to Thee I consecrate to Thee this day, my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve, Wherefore, good Mother, as I am Thine own, keep me, guard me, as Thy property and possession." http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/morning-offering.htm

"I am the Lady of the Rosary. Pray the Rosary (i.e. 15 decades; 5 decades is a part of the Rosary) every day to obtain Peace for the World." ~ Our Lady of the Rosary of Fatima.
 
The following users thanked this post: mikemac, Josephine87, Blue Violet

Offline Gardener

  • Drink the poison yourself.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8597
  • Thanked: 6107 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2018, 10:40:10 AM »
He also believed in Garabandal. Last I checked, Joey died blind.

#ButMuhSpiritualEyes!
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.

Woe is me, because I have held my peace. Isaiah 6
 

Offline Kreuzritter

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1384
  • Thanked: 952 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2018, 10:47:26 AM »
^ Says the Protestant

The spirit of readiness to publically ridicule Fatima, not just treat it with a fair private skepticism, is inevitably going to manifest in a falling away from the Catholic church and probably in time the Christian faith altogether - not because Fatima is necessarily some gospel truth, but because the mindset and intention behind the one is the same as that behind the other.

What you refer to as ridicule is, for the most part, charitable skepticism because some are over the top concerning Fatima and never shut up about it. The answer to every problem is Fatima. It is literally the cause, and solution to, all of life's problems. Much like Homer Simpson once commented on the nature of alcohol.

For those who have a mature faith based on study and participation in the Sacramental life based on public revelation, ridiculing Fatima should have no effect. I could see it shattering the faith of those on the other side though, Those who never tire of talking about it.

Luckily, their appears to be a stalemate and a way to continue to believe Fatima no matter what logic is thrown at them so it shouldn't be a big problem for them. But, should they ever begin to doubt, they will be the first ones to overthrow it all over Fatima. And that's why they are so stubborn about it. Because deep down they know their Faith is immature and based on a house of cards.


“Logic” which depends upon premises which are not objectively determined facts.

I’m not a Fatima cultist, I don’t intend on making a pilgrimage, I don’t say its prayers after my Rosary, and I don’t feel shaken or offended by some of the idiotic reasoning being thrown at it (e.g., my favourite: Our Lady of Fatima “threatened” the Pope because she warned what would happen as a consequence of failing to carry out her request - completele, mind-shattering logic fail and totally subjective impression). I’m simply pointing out the apparent fact of what seems to follow this anti-Fatima bug in several instances, just as it does with the zealous defenders of evolutionism, namely erosion and eventual loss of faith.


These

Quote
The fact that it succeeded is one of the reasons I'm convinced we're at the end, that it's all over.

It's over.  There can be no coming back from this.

are the words of an hysterical “cultist” resigned to doom and gloom, and I’ll bet they don’t end there.
 
The following users thanked this post: Maximilian, Blue Violet

Offline Xavier

  • Mary, Queen and Protectress of our Faith, protect our Faith from all the Satanic threats to it. Mary, Refuge of Holy Love, grant us final perseverance in Grace and Holy Love forever.
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 4082
  • Thanked: 3094 times
  • Indian Catholic
    • Marian Apostolate Life Offering.
  • Religion: Catholic Christian (Roman Rite Latin Traditionalist)
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2018, 10:52:56 AM »
Fatima has everything theologians call supernatural "motives of credibility". After appearing 5 times, the Virgin Mother prophesied to the children that there would be a great public event on Oct 13th, 1917. In front of 70,000 eyewitness, She kept Her word and Heaven worked a great miracle, with the sun dancing, the clothes of pilgrims being instantly dried, and the hostile secularist/masonic press being compelled to admit the event and check its skepticism. Atheists and skeptics have been converted by Our Lady of Fatima. Why oppose it, precisely? At least you could follow the Gamaliel rule, and leave it alone; it does no harm to the Faith, and rather promotes faith in God, love for Jesus, and devotion to Mary, and to the Twin Hearts, among Catholics. And since you believe, Gardener, in the well-documented and nigh impossible to deny fact of the (though some Fatima deniers have denied that also) infiltration of the Church by Communists that Bella Dodd gave sworn congressional testimony to, you know that Our Lady's words that Russia will spread her errors around the world, have come true to the letter. That is the second mark of supernatural revelation i.e. fulfilled prophesies. St. Jacinta also warned against immodesty and Our Lady of the dangers of the sins of the flesh, when She took the children to hell and to heaven; holy Priests like Fr. Bernard Kunkel in the 50's, who were fighting the "free love" movement with all their strength, but alas ultimately unsuccessfully, did so directed by Our Lady of Fatima. St. Pio, Fr. Kunkel, devotees of Fatima, read the "signs of the times" correctly. Others did not. Our Lady of Fatima is a prophetess, the Queen of Prophets. If we wish for a share in the prophetic spirit, at least to understand the spirit of the age, and the necessary means to oppose it, it is good to have a healthy veneration, devotion and love for Our Lady of Fatima.

http://www.catholictradition.org/Children/immodest-dress.htm
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 10:56:44 AM by Xavier »
Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ Please pray this daily and you and your family will be saved. You will avoid Purgatory.

Daily Morning Offering: O my God, in union with the Immaculate Heart of Mary,  I offer Thee the Precious Blood of Jesus from all the Altars  throughout the world, joining with It the offering of my every thought, word, and action of this day. I desire to gain every Indulgence and Merit I can, offering them, together with myself, to Mary Immaculate, Whom Thou hast appointed the dispenser of the merits of Thy Precious Blood, especially by means of this Scapular  [Here kiss your Brown Scapular] that She may best apply them to the interests of Thy Most Sacred Heart. Amen.

Consecration to Our Blessed Mother: My Queen, my Mother! I give myself entirely to Thee, and to show my devotion to Thee I consecrate to Thee this day, my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve, Wherefore, good Mother, as I am Thine own, keep me, guard me, as Thy property and possession." http://www.catholictradition.org/Mary/morning-offering.htm

"I am the Lady of the Rosary. Pray the Rosary (i.e. 15 decades; 5 decades is a part of the Rosary) every day to obtain Peace for the World." ~ Our Lady of the Rosary of Fatima.
 
The following users thanked this post: mikemac, Josephine87, Blue Violet

Offline Josephine87

  • Mary Garden
  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 466
  • Thanked: 465 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Theory about The Crisis and the chaos
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2018, 12:22:44 PM »
Thank you, Xavier. As a convert from atheism I have a dear place in my heart for Fatima.
"Begin again." -St. Teresa of Avila

“My present trial seems to me a somewhat painful one, and I have the humiliation of knowing how badly I bore it at first. I now want to accept and to carry this little cross joyfully, to carry it silently, with a smile in my heart and on my lips, in union with the Cross of Christ. My God, blessed be Thou; accept from me each day the embarrassment, inconvenience, and pain this misery causes me. May it become a prayer and an act of reparation." -Elisabeth Leseur
 
The following users thanked this post: mikemac, Xavier, Carleendiane, Davis Blank - EG, Blue Violet