Author Topic: St Mary's KS sspx  (Read 3046 times)

Offline Gardener

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2018, 06:41:24 PM »
The key is competency and resource diversification.

Competency: The parents must ask themselves what they are competent in -- they should be able to handle those subjects to their level of competency.

Resources: One cannot count on one resource if that resource isn't working for the child. My wife and her sisters went through several homeschool curriculum programs, and it wasn't necessarily the case that what worked for one worked for the others.

Incompetence: Anything in which one is not competent, or when competency is exceeded by demand, should not result in merely pawning a child off on a resource that is "supposed" to be good. It's impossible at that point to gauge where the child is failing due to misunderstanding the concept, or merely the resource's method of information conveyance. It is at this level a parent must either source tutoring elsewhere (such as a homeschool co-op), or turn to professional help.

When it comes to mathematics, YouTube is an amazing resource because there are tons of lessons online which use different methods. The proof will be in the pudding of correct answers.

Moreover, in all things it is necessary to diversify application of knowledge gained. For example, one may introduce their child to basic computer programming. Early experience with it should revolve around things at which they should be at a master level. Examples might include basic arithmetic programs that they code themselves. One could even write a program that outputs basic Latin declensions of words. They will know their program works when it outputs the correct declension. In other words, they would have to know the right answer to know the code works. This gives them confidence in their knowledge as applied, and that they used it to create. That last point is absolutely key. Otherwise they will simply see education as a drone factory.
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Offline Traditionallyruralmom

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2018, 11:53:33 PM »
I have heard it said, and find it to be true, that homeschooling mothers must see themselves as the child who brought the loaves and the fishes to Jesus.  We must present Him with our measly qualifications, time and energy and trust that He will give us the graces to do the work He has given us to do.  I trust that small Traditional Catholic schools with meager resources also feel this way and find it true.
In my experience, if mom and dad are pretty stable, the home is one built on love and mom does her best and never forgets to beg God to give her wisdom and knowledge to know what methods or resources are best...God always comes through.  Yes, there are learning curves for teacher mom, and the oldest is usually the guinea pig...but God makes up for what we lack if we do it for Him out of love.   :)
St Joseph of Cupertino, to stupid to do more than tend the barn.... The Cure of Ars, to dumb to learn latin... St Therese the Little Flower said hard reading would "break her head"...I take comfort in these saints.  I may not be a genius in math, but I'm smart enough to know how to enroll my child in a live online math course, or buy a Teaching Textbooks CD  ;)
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Offline Elizabeth

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2018, 07:51:54 PM »

 I may not be a genius in math,

..but you are in a number of interesting areas of home life, motherhood, overall education and formation of kids, so...

 :toth:
 
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Offline ABlaine

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2018, 10:33:23 AM »
So, not to wade into this topic too much, but I have to ask.

How on earth does homeschooling work and do you ever feel that it is a trade-off or limiting in some way?

When I look at it, you have one person, generally a stay-at-home mother, responsible for a number of children at different levels in all required subjects. While she is presumably more interested in their success and has more time to give to each child than a teacher might, she is almost certainly objectively less educated in every subject compared to a teacher that specializes in his subject and has actually had years of experience teaching the same thing to children.  So not only is more actual knowledge at the child's disposal, but the means of transmitting knowledge is more practiced.

I'm wondering because I'm 25, I'm likely to marry my girlfriend in a year or two and we've been talking about this on and off. My girlfriend is a year and a half younger than me and finishing medical school this year. I studied Geochemistry and the classical languages in university. Between the two of us, even with our backgrounds, I don't think we could offer the same caliber of education that a normal academic path could. I graduated high school with years of Latin and Greek and speaking French (and to a lesser extent, German). Even if I were capable of working full time with my future kids, I just don't think I could hold a candle to someone that taught any one of these languages for a profession. We could probably do chemistry and biology between the two of us, but again, I don't think it could possibly be of the same caliber even if we did have the time.

Finally, I've spent the last few years in France (though I'm elsewhere now) and my girlfriend is German. In Germany homeschooling is straight up illegal (they have to make sure that they can inject all the children with huge doses of guilt, can't have them miss out on that) and in France it is legal with annual checkups by the state but you're essentially screwed for your baccalauréat... which means good luck getting into any quality university. Many people that I knew that went to SSPX or other trad schools in France generally transferred to a different school for their last two years in order to prepare for their bac. Trad schools generally have good pass rates, but they're not exactly filling up elite (or even decent) universities.

Like I see the romantic appeal of learning at home, as that's how it's been for the overwhelming majority of people until modern times, but it seems so... limiting?
 

Offline Daniel

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2018, 11:02:48 AM »
So not only is more actual knowledge at the child's disposal, but the means of transmitting knowledge is more practiced.
I agree about the practical experience, but I don't agree about the theoretical knowledge. Because the course material for elementary school and middle school isn't all that hard (you don't need to be a mathematician or physicist to teach 5th grade algebra...), and I think the idea is that by the time the kid reaches late middle school you should already have taught the kid good study skills and study habits, such that the kid will be more independent and more capable of figuring out the material on his own, by simply reading his textbook and other sources, without as much need for a formal teacher. (Better off than in public schools where the students get free As and never bother to read their textbooks.) Though I was not homeschooled nor do I have children.

edit - Also with homeschooling, you have more control over the actual material and teaching methods. Many kids in public schools don't get much exposure to the classics, for example. And in college I took a course on how to teach STEM to K-12 students, and the techniques they were teaching us to use are pretty horrible. The approach is entirely inductive/hands-on, which isn't bad in itself (especially for younger children), but it lacks balance. And everything's about gamification and makerspace. No wonder the kids can't focus on their studies.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 11:19:39 AM by Daniel »
 
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Offline Traditionallyruralmom

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2018, 01:08:11 PM »
How on earth does homeschooling work and do you ever feel that it is a trade-off or limiting in some way?
 
she is almost certainly objectively less educated in every subject compared to a teacher that specializes in his subject and has actually had years of experience teaching the same thing to children.  So not only is more actual knowledge at the child's disposal, but the means of transmitting knowledge is more practiced.

I just don't think I could hold a candle to someone that taught any one of these languages for a profession. We could probably do chemistry and biology between the two of us, but again, I don't think it could possibly be of the same caliber even if we did have the time.


Like I see the romantic appeal of learning at home, as that's how it's been for the overwhelming majority of people until modern times, but it seems so... limiting?

You might like to look into options like this.  You have live professional teachers, classmates, and homework that needs to be turned into someone other than mom with grading and feedback.
https://queenofheavenacademy.org/
https://homeschoolconnectionsonline.com/
https://kolbe.org/index.php/courses/online/
https://www.memoriapressacademy.com/ (not Catholic, but very good, I use lots of their things in my homeschool)
 
There may be others rigorous Catholic classical or online programs that I am not aware of.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 01:11:51 PM by Traditionallyruralmom »
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Offline QuaeriteDominum

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2018, 08:44:39 AM »
I'm noticing that people from smaller sspx chapels are moving to places like St Mary's KS. What do you think of this?
Are there possibly any advantages to raising a family in St Mary's as opposed to a smaller chapel of the SSPX?

To get back on track to the subject of the OP, we moved our family from a beautiful home in a picturesque Mid-Atlantic town to a place (not St. Mary's) that had a Traditional Mass center. We traded an hour commute to a Traditional Mass Chapel to a 3 minute commute to a Traditional church and school (K-12), 3 Masses per day, daily Confession, Eucharistic Adoration, etc.  Everything one would require to raise a family in true Catholicism.  This move was not easy and it took a year to secure a job but it was, by far in hindsight, the best move we could have made.

Saints primarily reside in heaven and if you look to move to a place where they live on earth, you will be disappointed.  So I would not move to St. Mary's or any other place with a concentration of Trads just to coexist with a community of fervent, dedicated, Traditional Catholics because at some level, you will become disillusioned and disappointed. St. Mary's is not the Borg or Stepford - it is just people with a fallen nature seeking to find something they are lacking. Or, they were born there and are not necessarily there by choice. As in anywhere, you will find Catholics at both ends of the 'dedicated' spectrum. There are over 800 children in the school at St. Mary's and, surprisingly, each one is different. I know of families that have children who are priests and nuns and also have children who have fallen away from the faith. It happens. And food also gets moldy there.

However, if you seek the Sacraments, then moving to such a place, as we did, may save your soul and that of your family. In my case, if my soul and the souls of my wife and children are saved, I am convinced it will be in no small way a consequence of this choice.
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2018, 09:32:55 AM »
I'm noticing that people from smaller sspx chapels are moving to places like St Mary's KS. What do you think of this?
Are there possibly any advantages to raising a family in St Mary's as opposed to a smaller chapel of the SSPX?

To get back on track to the subject of the OP, we moved our family from a beautiful home in a picturesque Mid-Atlantic town to a place (not St. Mary's) that had a Traditional Mass center. We traded an hour commute to a Traditional Mass Chapel to a 3 minute commute to a Traditional church and school (K-12), 3 Masses per day, daily Confession, Eucharistic Adoration, etc.  Everything one would require to raise a family in true Catholicism.  This move was not easy and it took a year to secure a job but it was, by far in hindsight, the best move we could have made.

Saints primarily reside in heaven and if you look to move to a place where they live on earth, you will be disappointed.  So I would not move to St. Mary's or any other place with a concentration of Trads just to coexist with a community of fervent, dedicated, Traditional Catholics because at some level, you will become disillusioned and disappointed. St. Mary's is not the Borg or Stepford - it is just people with a fallen nature seeking to find something they are lacking. Or, they were born there and are not necessarily there by choice. As in anywhere, you will find Catholics at both ends of the 'dedicated' spectrum. There are over 800 children in the school at St. Mary's and, surprisingly, each one is different. I know of families that have children who are priests and nuns and also have children who have fallen away from the faith. It happens. And food also gets moldy there.

However, if you seek the Sacraments, then moving to such a place, as we did, may save your soul and that of your family. In my case, if my soul and the souls of my wife and children are saved, I am convinced it will be in no small way a consequence of this choice.

Thanks for this excellent and well-written piece. Thanks also for sharing your own authentic experience, and for the inspiration of your example.


So I would not move to St. Mary's or any other place with a concentration of Trads just to coexist with a community of fervent, dedicated, Traditional Catholics because at some level, you will become disillusioned and disappointed.

I think that wanting to be a part of a community of fervent, dedicated Traditional Catholics is a worthy motive for moving to a place like St. Mary's, or -- as I always recommend -- Cincinnati. Yes, it's true that the people will not all be saints on earth, so if your expectations are too high you will be disappointed.

But living with fallible, sinful fellow Traditional Catholics is just what we need in many instances to rub off the rough edges. It's also what so often is missing in those who live their Traditional Catholicism in a theoretical, speculative way on the internet -- contact with real live human beings with all their faults and idiosyncrasies.

I've heard it described before as the "potato theory." If you have a lot of potatoes to clean, you can scrub each one of them, one at a time. But instead they have something resembling a butter churn where you dump all the potatoes in together and then stir them around, and they clean each other.
 
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Offline QuaeriteDominum

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2018, 01:00:09 PM »


But living with fallible, sinful fellow Traditional Catholics is just what we need in many instances to rub off the rough edges. It's also what so often is missing in those who live their Traditional Catholicism in a theoretical, speculative way on the internet -- contact with real live human beings with all their faults and idiosyncrasies.


Well put, Max.

My experience is that Catholics, particularly Modern Catholics, do not know their faith. Most are so involved in the world as to have no time for their faith except on Sunday. And most modern Catholic parishes have long since abandoned regular adult catechism .. which is completely different from the Protestantized lay-led bible study meetings.

Similarly, many Trad Catholics with no access to regular live traditional priestly catechesis, rely on "Trad" internet theologians who know what they know by reading, which is not a bad thing in itself, but absent seminary formation, is incomplete and frequently prone to error.

Then you have the group of Trads who spent x years in a Trad seminary and were either asked to leave or left of their own initiative (although it is probably more of the former than the latter) and who are now the guiding Trad-Cat internet theologians.  That is like someone spending 3 years in pre-med and writing prescriptions for you.

So, go to where the priests are, by all means.
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2018, 11:04:27 AM »
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.
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Offline Josephine87

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2018, 03:14:31 PM »
It's interesting you mention Michigan, Heinrich. It reminds me of this article about two small towns there that have produced a disproportionate number of priests and nuns:

Quote
Two small Mid-Michigan villages have produced a high number of Catholic priests.

The villages of Fowler and Westphalia were profiled by the New York Times on Monday . Fowler, with a population of 1,224, has produced 22 priests; Westphalia, population 938, which has also produced 22 priests.

And over the decades, Westphalia has also produced 37 Catholic nuns; Fowler has 43.

Lisa Ling did a tv program on the larger of the towns, Fowler. I'd like to see it. It's an NO parish there with girl altar boys and lay lectors...but I almost think I'd rather live there than an urban FSSP parish where half the families live an hour or more away. There's no community.
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2018, 03:17:56 PM »
It's interesting you mention Michigan, Heinrich. It reminds me of this article about two small towns there that have produced a disproportionate number of priests and nuns:

Quote
Two small Mid-Michigan villages have produced a high number of Catholic priests.

The villages of Fowler and Westphalia were profiled by the New York Times on Monday . Fowler, with a population of 1,224, has produced 22 priests; Westphalia, population 938, which has also produced 22 priests.

And over the decades, Westphalia has also produced 37 Catholic nuns; Fowler has 43.

Lisa Ling did a tv program on the larger of the towns, Fowler. I'd like to see it. It's an NO parish there with girl altar boys and lay lectors...but I almost think I'd rather live there than an urban FSSP parish where half the families live an hour or more away. There's no community.

Those are good points.
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Offline Gardener

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2018, 03:42:03 PM »
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.

As soon as the team stabilizes, we plan to take 10 days off (4 for travel to keep the kids from going crazy) and visit the Tulsa/Bartlesville area to see if we want to make the jump.

I want to coordinate w/ Michael Wilson to stop and visit him in St. Mary's on our way either to or from CO.
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2018, 03:43:51 PM »
Love to hear from you "G-man"!
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Offline Padraig

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Re: St Mary's KS sspx
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2018, 07:54:43 PM »
Would anyone care to share their experiences? Who here has "up and moved" from Sodom to Shangri La, i.e. from a liberal area to a trad friendly area? Were expectations met? Regrets? I tell you, not a day goes by wherein the Mrs. and I don't mention moving from Californicated Colorado to an area more conservative, mostly Dixie. We had an opportunity with a tremendous job lined up in mid Michigan, but there was no FSSP or even SSPX community within a comfortable driving distance. Not to mention, well, Michigan. So as it stands now we be still here in CO with our beloved FSSP parish staked within an illegal alien, homosexual, tattoo-conventioned, freak face, synthetic and slut populace. Yet it is going to be near 60, mostly blue skies here in December today. I think I will go snowshoeing.

Not permanently, but for two summers I did move out to St. Mary's, KS, to work at the nearby Onyx Collection factory, a company owned and operated by traditional Catholics. I'd rate the experience as "mostly positive." That being said, I don't have plans to permanently relocate out there (despite frequent hints from my wife about how much she'd love for us to be back there someday).

The good: The people I met were almost universally friendly, generous, sincere Catholics, who loved God and their way of life. The availability of the sacraments and Mass, direction from the priests, and Catholic fellowship was unique to my experience.

The not so good: Everything else.
The cost of living is high, or the standard of living will be low. There is basically a housing shortage due to the huge influx of residents, and real estate is expensive in town. If you live outside of town, where it is dirt cheap, you lose most of the benefits you moved out to the middle of Kansas to enjoy.
You have to drive EVERYWHERE. Just get used to putting 25k miles (at least) on your car every year.
Shopping is difficult, unless you want to drive 35 miles to Topeka or Manhattan for groceries. (There is a store in town, but it's pretty crumby. And it's run by this atheist who enjoys having meat sales during Lent.)
I didn't have any children to put into school, but I get the impression that tuition isn't exactly cheap.
There is a definite religious "cliquishness," which requires strict adherence to a party line: FSSP, SSPX, or Resistance. Everyone knows who is on which side, and they generally don't associate with each other. (If I had to choose one, I'd probably choose the Resistance, but that would put a strain on my relationship with my wife and her family out there, who are very pro-SSPX.)
The residents out there who aren't member of the parish (and there are of course many of those) are not all exactly "salt of the earth," good, God-fearing Christians. There's a lot of white trash, and there's a rampant methamphetamine problem out there. You end up trading one collection of vices for another when you move from the city to the country.

I know I sound pretty negative, but I don't mean to say that no one should move there. There are MANY people for whom the things I listed are small problems in the face of living in a Traditional community. Which you really be doing if you moved there. You will never see more women in skirts than out there. You will never see more 15 passenger vans in residential driveways. You will never see more priests in cassocks walking down the sidewalk. Those things (and many other aspects of Catholic life which are just parts of NORMAL life for those residents) are very real, and very positive. There's definitely a sense of having reached a "critical mass" of Catholics, where your experience of life is now substantially different from living in a predominantly worldly location. But the negative side exists as well, and saving your soul will never be easy.
 
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