Author Topic: Farewell.  (Read 1187 times)

Offline Livenotonevil

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Farewell.
« on: September 03, 2018, 03:36:27 PM »
I think that today marks the day that I should leave this forum. I thank you for all the folks that I've interacted with on this forum, even those whom I've gotten venomous with.

It's just that I've come to the realization today after one interaction that I have no reason much longer to be on this forum.

Of course, if you have love in your heart, pray for me still, for the forgiveness of my sins.

But may God help me in the areas in which I am very much lacking and struggle with a huge amount of sins. My seemingly countless sins when compared to God's Love is that of a hand of wet sand thrown into the ocean, but I'm still not at a point of Salvation, and my soul needs to repent before that day where the time of repentance is closed.

I thank you all for your help, and God help each one of you, and may he help me, who is probably worse of a sinner than many of you.

Thanks.
May God forgive me for my consistent sins of the flesh and any blasphemous and carnal desire, as well as forgive me whenever I act prideful, against the desire of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, to be a Temple of the Holy Spirit.
 

Offline GloriaPatri

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2018, 03:48:26 PM »
May God be with you, Livenotonevil. And may He bless you always.
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2018, 03:58:41 PM »
Live,
 I will pray for you.  :pray2:
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2018, 04:06:07 PM »

God help each one of you, and may he help me, who is probably worse of a sinner than many of you...


....but not than I.  (Not false humility: I'm pretty sure my spiritual director would agree with me on that probability.)  Therefore, let us pray for each other.  The prayers of others, for me, are always more efficacious than those of my own, and the same is true when I pray for others, I'm told.  I'm confident that He will continue to lead you to Himself, and I will pray with that confidence.
 

Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2018, 05:39:48 PM »
My heart is sad whenever a member leaves.

1.  Of course we will pray for you!   
2.  I'll always remember your help regarding the way I pray, and have so naturally since childhood - it's hesychasm.  Since your patient explanations that illuminated my intellect, my life has changed.  Thank you, friend of Christ. 

You will be missed.
They shall not be confounded in the evil time; and in the days of famine they shall be filled
Psalms 36:19
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2018, 10:29:19 AM »
I think that today marks the day that I should leave this forum. I thank you for all the folks that I've interacted with on this forum, even those whom I've gotten venomous with.

It's just that I've come to the realization today after one interaction that I have no reason much longer to be on this forum.

What happened?
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 

Offline Elizabeth

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2018, 11:20:12 AM »
 

Offline Lydia Purpuraria

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2018, 11:39:34 AM »
I think that today marks the day that I should leave this forum. I thank you for all the folks that I've interacted with on this forum, even those whom I've gotten venomous with.

It's just that I've come to the realization today after one interaction that I have no reason much longer to be on this forum.

What happened?

I think he was referring to the interaction that started with this post.

 :shrug:
 

Offline queen.saints

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2018, 12:18:13 PM »
Just so you know, I loved your profile picture.
 

Offline Greg

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2018, 02:17:21 PM »
Repin or Surykov?  I can never remember which.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 02:20:29 PM by Greg »
My preferred pronoun is "he he"
 
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Offline Gardener

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2018, 04:46:07 PM »
I've held off on making this post and with this content, because I perceived that it would really cut at you in a way which I cannot tell you have shared with this forum. Perhaps you have, but I'm not going to wade through all of your posts to find it, and your original posts certainly weren't in the vein as the one I will quote. Allow me to explain: you came onto this forum acting as if you'd done some great study as a Catholic and determined the Orthodox are in fact the true Church. You failed to mention that you essentially apostasized and only gave a few parishes and a liberal Newman Center a try after your period of living in abject sin before jetting off to the Orthodox; or, you were dishonest, or, you skipped over a bunch of information in the following post. Either way, you were disingenuous somewhere and frankly, I simply don't believe you regardless because you haven't been honest somewhere.

http://www.catholicforum.com/forums/showthread.php?66939-I-feel-confused
Quote
Dear to whom it may concern,

 My name is Matt and I am a college student - a college student who was born and raised Catholic, went to Catholic grade school, and went to Catholic
 high school.

 However, overtime, I gradually began losing faith in the Catholic Church primarily available on campus via not so spiritually pure habits and not being able to grow in my relationship with God with the primary Catholic community.
 Overtime, I stopped going to church...period...and even though I was a theist...at least a deist...I didn't even go to church for Easter Sunday.
 I kept on searching, however, for a community, and I found one in an Orthodox Church. Now, not only did I meet people who shared my interests, had my sense of humor, and were genuinely people I can share my feelings with - the priests there, my fellow friends, the families there, etc. I also was able to connect with God in a way that I hadn't been able to before. I joined an Orthodox Christian group - OCF - and I've made good friends with the people there.
 I have learned SO MUCH about both faiths (Catholic and Orthodox), and both perspectives on different issues from going to this church. I've learned about traditions in both churches that I haven't heard of before (The fact that the Virgin Mary was a Temple Virgin for most of her life....like how have I not heard this?), I've learned about the history of both churches to such an extent (What caused both churches to split, and doctrinal clarification to such an extent I haven't heard of before), I've learned about specific teachings and stories of the Church Fathers, I've learned about the Seven Ecumenical Councils, as well as various heresies of the Church (Nestorianism, Arianism, Monophytism, etc.) and I came to understand God in a way that I've never understood before. I really wanted to change who I was as an individual, and for one of the first times in my life, I learned about the benefits of giving up some pleasures of the flesh for the greater glory of God. I became a much happier and less hostile individual.

 However, overtime, something was calling me back to the Catholic Church - after watching some YouTube videos of Western Rite Orthodoxy and the Catholic Tridentine Mass, I missed aspects of the Western liturgy - the statues, the candles, the organs, the plain colors, the slow movements of the priest - etc. And there was always something about the Catholic Church in my heart that seemed complete. So I made an effort to go back to the Catholic Church.

 And I realized what exactly "turned me off" so to speak about the Catholic Church I had been going to.

 Rather than developing my understanding of the faith, and growing in my relationship to God, there was a very clear stagnation in the Church.

 Most sermons, by both priest and student alike, were VERY basic and fundamental ideas that weren't explained well nor justified well.

 For example,
 The idea of the Great Fast or Lent in the Orthodox Church was explained to me in such a way like this: That we have to put suffering on ourselves and give up some fundamental things in life in order to break away sinful habits that seem fundamental in our life, and focus our attention on God. They would also give this in the context of the Church Fathers or the Early Saints for examples.
 Boom. That makes sense to me.

 But in this Catholic Church, rather than explaining it in a way that made sense, they just stated "it has the Holy Spirit empower you," and quotes with no context a bunch of Bible verses that aren't connected to one another - and I felt like I learned absolutely nothing in terms of the Catholic perspective, because there was no logic behind the argument.

 And what is more - and this is just personally me - is that I connect with God via silence traditional means of prayer. I like listening and singing to chants, and in silence saying traditional prayers (like the Rosary, the Jesus Prayer via prayer rope, etc.), while focusing in on an Icon or a Statuary. Two of the most beautiful songs I like listening to and praying to is Pangue Lingua and the Gregorian Kyrie Eleison in the Catholic tradition. I love the smell of incense or candles, etc. The Catholic Church that I attended is VERY VERY Evangelical - it has the "give your heart to Jesus" mentality, with contemporary Christian music that I don't find personally inspiring, with very little art, of which is abstract and contemporary. I don't like the idea of singing and closing your eyes with your hands out clapping to contemporary generic Christian pop, it just doesn't make me feel authentically who I am as it stands with God. The community there was also a bit kind of cold to me for some reason, and I didn't really connect with anybody.
 I don't think I can see myself as a member of this community, simply because it doesn't help me advance my faith in God, nor does it give me inspiration to propel me further.

 Maybe perhaps it is the will of God, but it seems hard to find a Catholic group of people that have similar interests that I have, and that has the complex historical and theological teaching that the Orthodox Church has.

 I mean, it probably is the fact that because the Catholic Church is the largest denomination in the United States, it has no need to really try to elaborate its doctrine and history because people already have a very primitive understanding of it - but it is so hard to find people who have such a passion for the Catholic Church alone that I find conversations about Christianity very cliche and uninspiring in that Church. In the Orthodox Church, because of its greater obscurity and the fact it is lesser known, it needs to be very explicit with comparing itself to other denominations and give elaborate doctrinal explanations

 Of course, it is not the only Catholic Church on campus - there are others, and there is a larger more traditional Church that I really enjoyed the service of, but it is hard, I feel, to find an organized Catholic group which I can be positively influenced by.

 I don't know if I came across clearly what my problem is,  but in this stage of uncertainty of my faith, it is unfair to not find an equally passionate alternative to the Orthodox Church that subscribes to my Mother Church - the Catholic Church.

 Can anybody relate, and is there any possible solutions?


-------
DNW:
 Yes, it was the Newman Center which I went to where I didn't really feel like I could connect with the people and God. Now, I myself am a sinner - and I am a very prideful individual (and I say this ironically not out of pride, like "oh, look how holy I am! I admit I'm a sinner!" but out of the fact that I am trying to break away from immature and selfish habits)- but the Newman Center was very "contemporary" in its style and music, and I just can't connect to God with that. I don't know why, I don't want to sound malicious towards people who connect to God like that, but I just prefer a traditional style of music - and due to my unique personality, I just couldn't really connect with people who like that style of worship. God bless them for their faith, I find it amazing that even in college Christ can help us avoid the most daunting of temptations, given our perception of college being a place of self-pleasure (which, admittedly, I have fallen to sin in).
 Please pray for me!

 CCF Glenn:
 I really appreciate your kind words, and thank you - I just wasn't sure if I was alone in having these kinds of feelings, because so many different thoughts just kind of hit me all at once, and I really needed to kind of find a way to express my thoughts with people who may or may not relate. I was wondering if maybe the fact that people could connect with God in this way was a sign that my relationship with God was all fabricated (even though it seems real to me, despite the fact that I can be lazy or prideful, trying to reconnect with God has really helped me change who I am as an individual) or maybe that I am actually an absolute terrible person, because people could find peace with God in a way that I couldn't, or I don't know. This is on top of my kind of journey so to speak about questioning whether or not the Orthodox Church is the one, true, Church, or the Catholic Church is the one, true, Church, and not being able to look at both Churches with equal interest at this instant (because I am very conflicted with this, and I just don't want to abandon the Catholic Church because I can't find a community)

 There is another Church close by, which coincidentally shares the same name as my high-school, which - although not Tridentine - was definitely built before Vatican II, and is more traditional (the front rows have the kneeling to receive Communion, and some portions of the liturgy for Ash Wednesday were in Latin like Agnus Dei). They have what I believe to be an affiliated Catholic outreach group that meets in a building closeby, so possibly connected to this Church, and there is a men's group that I can look into.

 There is also a Tridentine liturgy in a Church that is a few miles away, and I live on campus without a car...so...
 I definitely feel it necessary to go to mass there one time to observe it, maybe I can get a bus or catch a ride or something,
 I haven't been to a Tridentine liturgy in so long and I really want to go to one.

 I hope things work out,
 and if they don't, who knows...maybe I can start a Traditionalist Catholic group on campus assuming that God pushes me forward to the Catholic faith (if I hopefully identify that it is God and not satan), but thanks for the help! God bless!



1) Based on some of your catechetical experiences with the Orthodox, your having been raised "Catholic" and having gone to "Catholic" schools is immaterial. You had as much of a Catholic upbringing and knowledge as most liberal Jews have a Jewish upbringing -- in name only; an identity perhaps, but not an actual religion aside from a communal one -- no understanding of tenets of faith to bind (see etymology of religion) you to the community and ultimately, to Christ. Your catechetical level of knowledge was criminal in its lacking (and that fault is on your parents, teachers, and once you were older, you). You were ill-disposed to making any good decisions based on Church hopping and testing waters. Before one goes gallivanting off to strange lands for adventure, perhaps they should explore their own neighborhood first. And not just explore by meeting one neighbor who is boring or weird and deciding to up and move (do you see how this was ultimately about you and continues to be?).

2) You made the mistake of basing your spiritual life and adherence to a relationship with Christ on the "community", which you plainly state you were searching for. You did not fight against sin, and as Voltaire noted and encouraged to his disciples who struggled with retaining faith (against their desire) and counseled to mortally sin as much as possible: it cost you your faith.

3) Your understanding of things like fasting (see below for citations) were abominable, and so when you get taught a basic truth that all traditional Catholic children are taught, it made sense and filled you with joy. But here's the problem: you now have a sort of poisoned well regarding the Catholic Church and tip towards Orthodox because they taught you something true (which the Catholic Church also teaches). But you only see it as you were given a truth by the Orthodox.

Imagine if you will the story of the Prodigal Son (PS). Imagine that, through the shenanigans of the maids, tutors, and his older brother that the PS never really learned about his parents as he should have despite the parents constantly informing all who had charge of the PS what he should know. Now imagine that when he came home, he was met by the older brother as a representative of the parents to remind him of the parents' love for him and all the things he was taught (supposed). When the brother comes out, he doesn't do any of that. Now imagine the PS dejected and disappointed and he goes off in search of another family. He finds one, and they teach him a few things that the parents had instructed the proxies to teach the PS. The PS is elated at this knowledge and begins to become embittered toward the parents. But the family he has come into, or is at least a guest of, also has some peculiar views on things. Now the well is "sweetened" and set up for the fall of incorrect info because they are all kind to him and have given him a bit of truth. So when he goes to the other siblings of his previous family (of which he actually still belongs), he is combative. They try to correct the misunderstanding and ask him to come back (for the ones who kept things from him have been overthrown once awareness came of their treachery). He won't hear it. He is embittered. But yet he knows in his heart that despite everything, his true family is not the one he is with. So he fights not only his original family, but also himself. Going back and forth with no stability of conscience, he looks for anything he can find to cut himself off from the family tree. "Grandpa used to use the N word, though he wasn't racist per se... but that's racist." "Great-great-grandma was sort of nuts." "Way back in the day it's rumored that there were 3 men who claimed to be the father, and finally one female cousin convinced the one who wasn't even living in the home to come back and rightfully claim what was his."

All very confusing, I know. Most family trees are when you delve into the nitty-gritty. But that doesn't nullify them.

And what of the problems of the new family? Just hand wave them away? Just explain them away in a manner that, if applied to the other family, would have been fought against by the PS? Sure. Why not. At least then the PS doesn't have any sort of perceived historical responsibility for them.

4) You mentioned in the post, "Most sermons, by both priest and student alike, were VERY basic and fundamental ideas that weren't explained well nor justified well." I'm not sure what this means, as students shouldn't be giving sermons of any type. I do wonder about the Newman Center you experienced.

5) You also noted that you very much prefer reverent liturgy, chant, etc. and that, " The Catholic Church that I attended is VERY VERY Evangelical - it has the "give your heart to Jesus" mentality, with contemporary Christian music that I don't find personally inspiring, with very little art, of which is abstract and contemporary."

So... I'm not surprised you found this problematic. I wonder though, as you freely admit you are subject to emotion and appeals to the flesh, if you thought perhaps that God was calling you via these poor examples of true worship to something greater. In other words, a sort of unspoken question of, "Do you want me, or do you want to "feel" like you want me? If the former, continue seeking me as I will lead you to that which allows me to be had more perfectly; if the latter, you will do what you want." I do not mean to put words in God's mouth, I am just thinking "out loud" here. And don't fool yourself, emotional conversions can often feel very real and are simply one continuing to fight against God because we are still ensconced in the prison of our own desires.

6) You wrote, " it seems hard to find a Catholic group of people that have similar interests that I have, and that has the complex historical and theological teaching that the Orthodox Church has."

and

"I mean, it probably is the fact that because the Catholic Church is the largest denomination in the United States, it has no need to really try to elaborate its doctrine and history because people already have a very primitive understanding of it - but it is so hard to find people who have such a passion for the Catholic Church alone that I find conversations about Christianity very cliche and uninspiring in that Church. In the Orthodox Church, because of its greater obscurity and the fact it is lesser known, it needs to be very explicit with comparing itself to other denominations and give elaborate doctrinal explanations"

a) God is ultimately simple, and thus the Catholic Faith is very simple. Yet, simplicity is very complex when one starts exploring it. For example look at the irreducible complexity of the simple mouse trap. It has three parts: board, latch, and spring. Easy. But wait, what of the physics of the mouse trap? What of the metallurgical composition of the non-wood parts? How much force can be exacted or withheld before it becomes a mouse guillotine or a mouse nuisance? Does the fragility or hardness of the wood affect proper performance? Etc. So you see, when we start to probe, simplicity can become very complex. Yet, it still remains simple unto itself.

b) The Church has always and everywhere a very real need to constantly teach the truth. Do you not know Her scriptures?

Quote
[1] I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming, and his kingdom: [2] Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. [3] For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: [4] And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. [5] But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry. Be sober.
2 Timothy 4

The problem with the Catholic Church in America is she is virtually unopposed. Not in any meaningful historical way, at least. Who appreciates food more: the fatass rich kid or the kid who wonders if they will have a meal that night? We're a bunch of fatass rich kids, to be honest. Elsewhere, there are those who are only Catholic who have a passion for the Church (hence, they suffer... get it, passion?).

I'd caution you on the use of the term "denomination". That means simply something which is a part of a greater thing in an autonomous sense. Denominationalism is found nowhere in Scripture. One either is, or isn't, in the Church. Further, the need to give elaborate explanations is historically an untenable method of evangelizing. Why? Let's be honest: most people aren't smart. Even the average person is not smart. The Church grew from a tiny group to a worldwide phenomenon by simple preaching. Look at the Apostles' words in Acts: simple. Look at Jesus' dialogues with the various people in the Gospels: simple (incisive, yes; magnificent, yes; complex? no.).

7) You wrote in a later post, "There is also a Tridentine liturgy in a Church that is a few miles away, and I live on campus without a car...so...I definitely feel it necessary to go to mass there one time to observe it, maybe I can get a bus or catch a ride or something, I haven't been to a Tridentine liturgy in so long and I really want to go to one."

Dude, what are you in Alaska in the winter with 60mph gusts at -40F? My wife's maternal grandmother used to walk like 4 miles from her family's ranch to the parish in Santa Fe, NM every day as a child. If "I really want to go to one" was true, you'd have begged, borrowed, and "stolen" to get there. Further, do you realize how utterly easy it would be to contact the pastor, explain your lack of transport, and they'd have had people over there every day if you wanted. I guarantee it. Instead, you just whined like an effeminate wimp.

So I'm wondering where you stand. If you'll actually just give your family the benefit of the doubt and come back to your Mother who grieves for you. If not, you shall remain in doubt and like that moron Rod Dreher, become increasingly passive aggressive in your attacks until you one day (as I hope he does) realize you really only became Orthodox to fight the Church without feeling like a total quitter. And when that moment comes, you will realize that you aren't actually Orthodox since your spirituality will be one of combativeness with an external agent rather than the sinner within.

You will not have peace.

Quote
Q. 1346. Why does the Church command us to fast and abstain?

A. The Church commands us to fast and abstain, in order that we may mortify our passions and satisfy for our sins.

Q. 1347. What is meant by our passions and what by mortifying them?

A. By our passions are meant our sinful desires and inclinations. Mortifying them means restraining them and overcoming them so that they have less power to lead us into sin.

Q. 1348. Why does the Church command us to abstain from flesh-meat on Fridays?

A. The Church commands us to abstain from flesh-meat on Fridays in honor of the day on which our Savior died.
BC3
http://www.baltimore-catechism.com/lesson35.htm

Quote
290. Why does the Church command us to fast and to abstain?
The Church commands us to fast and to abstain in order that we may control the desires of the flesh, raise our minds more freely to God, and make satisfaction for sin.

But thou, when thou dost fast, anoint thy head wash thy face, so that thou mayest not be seen fasting by men, but by thy Father, who is in secret; and thy Father, who sees in secret, will reward thee. (Matthew 6:18)

BC2
http://www.cmri.org/baltimore-catechism-no2-lessons21-30.shtml

Quote
IV. INTERIOR PENANCE

1430 Jesus' call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, "sackcloth and ashes," fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.23

1431 Interior repentance is a radical reorientation of our whole life, a return, a conversion to God with all our heart, an end of sin, a turning away from evil, with repugnance toward the evil actions we have committed. At the same time it entails the desire and resolution to change one's life, with hope in God's mercy and trust in the help of his grace. This conversion of heart is accompanied by a salutary pain and sadness which the Fathers called animi cruciatus (affliction of spirit) and compunctio cordis (repentance of heart).24

1432 The human heart is heavy and hardened. God must give man a new heart.25 Conversion is first of all a work of the grace of God who makes our hearts return to him: "Restore us to thyself, O LORD, that we may be restored!"26 God gives us the strength to begin anew. It is in discovering the greatness of God's love that our heart is shaken by the horror and weight of sin and begins to fear offending God by sin and being separated from him. The human heart is converted by looking upon him whom our sins have pierced:27


Let us fix our eyes on Christ's blood and understand how precious it is to his Father, for, poured out for our salvation it has brought to the whole world the grace of repentance.
1433 Since Easter, the Holy Spirit has proved "the world wrong about sin,"29 i.e., proved that the world has not believed in him whom the Father has sent. But this same Spirit who brings sin to light is also the Consoler who gives the human heart grace for repentance and conversion.30

V. THE MANY FORMS OF PENANCE IN CHRISTIAN LIFE

1434 The interior penance of the Christian can be expressed in many and various ways. Scripture and the Fathers insist above all on three forms, fasting, prayer, and almsgiving,31 which express conversion in relation to oneself, to God, and to others. Alongside the radical purification brought about by Baptism or martyrdom they cite as means of obtaining forgiveness of sins: effort at reconciliation with one's neighbor, tears of repentance, concern for the salvation of one's neighbor, the intercession of the saints, and the practice of charity "which covers a multitude of sins."32 

1435 Conversion is accomplished in daily life by gestures of reconciliation, concern for the poor, the exercise and defense of justice and right,33 by the admission of faults to one's brethren, fraternal correction, revision of life, examination of conscience, spiritual direction, acceptance of suffering, endurance of persecution for the sake of righteousness. Taking up one's cross each day and following Jesus is the surest way of penance.34 

1436 Eucharist and Penance. Daily conversion and penance find their source and nourishment in the Eucharist, for in it is made present the sacrifice of Christ which has reconciled us with God. Through the Eucharist those who live from the life of Christ are fed and strengthened. "It is a remedy to free us from our daily faults and to preserve us from mortal sins."35 

1437 Reading Sacred Scripture, praying the Liturgy of the Hours and the Our Father - every sincere act of worship or devotion revives the spirit of conversion and repentance within us and contributes to the forgiveness of our sins. 

1438 The seasons and days of penance in the course of the liturgical year (Lent, and each Friday in memory of the death of the Lord) are intense moments of the Church's penitential practice.36 These times are particularly appropriate for spiritual exercises, penitential liturgies, pilgrimages as signs of penance, voluntary self-denial such as fasting and almsgiving, and fraternal sharing (charitable and missionary works). 

1439 The process of conversion and repentance was described by Jesus in the parable of the prodigal son, the center of which is the merciful father:37 the fascination of illusory freedom, the abandonment of the father's house; the extreme misery in which the son finds himself after squandering his fortune; his deep humiliation at finding himself obliged to feed swine, and still worse, at wanting to feed on the husks the pigs ate; his reflection on all he has lost; his repentance and decision to declare himself guilty before his father; the journey back; the father's generous welcome; the father's joy - all these are characteristic of the process of conversion. The beautiful robe, the ring, and the festive banquet are symbols of that new life - pure worthy, and joyful - of anyone who returns to God and to the bosom of his family, which is the Church. Only the heart Of Christ Who knows the depths of his Father's love could reveal to us the abyss of his mercy in so simple and beautiful a way.

CCC
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c2a4.htm

Quote
From her earliest days, the Church has taught the need for asceticism in the life of every Christian. That’s right—asceticism is not just monks and priests, but for laymen too. But what do I mean by asceticism? For our purposes, asceticism can be loosely defined as self-denial with the ultimate goal of self-control. And this self denial most often takes the form of, you guessed it, fasting.

Asceticism is necessary for everyone because of our passions—intense fleshly desires, which are sometimes referred to as concupiscence. Experience teaches us that we our often lead about by these desires in a way we can barely control. St. Paul tells us that “the impulses of nature and the impulses of the spirit are at war with one another.”1  This war is so intense that our passions often lead us to do things we don’t want to do, and we find ourselves saying, “My own actions bewilder me; what I do is not what I wish to do, but something which I hate.”2

Keep in mind that the passions of our flesh are not necessarily wrong, but because of our fallen nature, they are out of control and they want to dominate us. Left unchecked, our passions will lead us to soul destroying behavior like gluttony, hatred, disordered sexual acts, or addictions of all kinds.  Eventually, their dominion will lead us to hell. “The sinful passions…yield increase only to death,” explains St. Paul.3

Faced with the reality of the passions, it can be easy to become discouraged and think we can never overcome them. We cry, “Pitiable creature that I am, who is to set me free from a nature thus doomed to death?”4

Fortunately, that’s not the end of the story, and we are not left as helpless slaves to concupiscence. “The spiritual principle of life has set me free, in Christ Jesus, from the principle of sin and death.”5

Through the grace of God, and by walking in the new life purchased for us by Jesus Christ, we can overcome and subdue our passions. We can live as children of God, free from the law of sin that leads to death.

So how do we find this freedom practically speaking? Again, St. Paul explains:


Quote
“Nature has no longer any claim upon us, that we should live a life of nature. If you life a life of nature, you are marked out for death; if you mortify the ways of nature through the power of the Spirit, you will have life.”6

“Those who belong to Christ have crucified nature, with all its passions, all its impulses.”7

“I buffet my own body, and make it my slave.”8

In other words, we find freedom from the passions by mortifying them, putting them to death, through the practice of grace-empowered asceticism—specifically, fasting. Fasting helps us tame the wild stallion of our flesh and bring it under the bridle of self-control.

In his apostolic constitution on penance, Painitemini, Pope Paul VI explains this point clearly:


Quote
This exercise of bodily mortification—far removed from any form of stoicism—does not imply a condemnation of the flesh which sons of God deign to assume. On the contrary mortification aims at the “liberation” of man, who often finds himself, because of concupiscence, almost chained by his own senses. Through “corporal fasting” man regains strength and the “wound inflicted on the dignity of our nature by intemperance is cured by the medicine of a salutary abstinence.”

The Catholic Gentleman
https://www.catholicgentleman.net/2014/04/spiritual-weapons-fasting/

Now, that's 2 levels of the Baltimore Catechism, the new Catechism, and a trad blogger quoting Scripture and an Apostolic Constitution which all said the essentially same thing as your catechetical experience with the Orthodox. So did you not know this because it's not true for the Catholic Church, who has constantly taught this, or because you were an uncatechized wreck and didn't make an effort to actually learn like you did when you went to the Orthodox? Obviously, the latter.



"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.

Woe is me, because I have held my peace. Isaiah 6
 
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Offline Greg

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2018, 05:44:17 AM »
This is actually the best argument against rationalism.

Most people are far too stupid to understand the facts and reach a well reasoned conclusion based on those facts.  They need smarter people to tell them what to do or what it means.

An IQ of 100 is pretty dim.  Won't pass an 11+ test.  Could not get a worthwhile university degree.  Could not be taught to use a sextant and navigate by the stars and a chronometer.  Can't handle calculus or diagnose faults in a petrol engine or washing machine from first principles.

And half of people are even dimmer than that!

Construction workers are typical of a person witn an IQ of around 110.  And while they are skilled in a trained monkey sort of way, it is a rare one who can invent their way around a problem and understand the mechanical forces, weathering, moments, stresses, tension in the things they are building.  They are rote leaners.

On top of that many people simply dont want to learn or dont have the time in a busy life.  They have to just trust the high priests of science, religion, art, fashion and music to tell them what to think.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 05:53:06 AM by Greg »
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2018, 12:06:47 PM »
This is actually the best argument against rationalism.

Most people are far too stupid to understand the facts and reach a well reasoned conclusion based on those facts.  They need smarter people to tell them what to do or what it means.

An IQ of 100 is pretty dim.  Won't pass an 11+ test.  Could not get a worthwhile university degree.  Could not be taught to use a sextant and navigate by the stars and a chronometer.  Can't handle calculus or diagnose faults in a petrol engine or washing machine from first principles.

And half of people are even dimmer than that!

Construction workers are typical of a person witn an IQ of around 110.  And while they are skilled in a trained monkey sort of way, it is a rare one who can invent their way around a problem and understand the mechanical forces, weathering, moments, stresses, tension in the things they are building.  They are rote leaners.

On top of that many people simply dont want to learn or dont have the time in a busy life.  They have to just trust the high priests of science, religion, art, fashion and music to tell them what to think.

This isn't an argument against rationalism.

At best, it's an argument against democracy. The majority of people don't know what's best for them. And I would concur.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.
 
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Offline Greg

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2018, 04:35:44 PM »
OK, rationalism for 50% of people.

Since they cannot think clearly, then being a follower is their only course of action.
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Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: Farewell.
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2018, 05:22:18 PM »
OK, rationalism for 50% of people.

Since they cannot think clearly, then being a follower is their only course of action.

Nothing wrong with that.

The world needs shepherds and sheep. Leaders and people to be led. It's a natural balance.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.