Author Topic: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.  (Read 745 times)

Offline Xavier

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The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« on: July 19, 2018, 04:05:00 AM »
Three simple questions for our friends who support evolution/deny a global flood.

1. Why are there Fish Fossils in the Himalayas? From a news site on a recent discovery, "The mighty Himalayas, also known as ‘The Roof of the World’, rise up to an incredible height, disappearing into the clouds on some days. Some of the world’s highest peaks are in the Himalayas, including Mount Everest, which at 29,029 feet is the highest mountain in the world. At these altitudes, the air is thin, and the temperatures are extreme. The land is arid and brown, and it looks like it’s been this way since the beginning of time. These mighty mountains are hundreds of miles away from the closest sea. So how is it possible that marine fossils have been found in multiple locations in the Himalayas?"

2. Why are there watery graveyards of dinosaurs and other extinct creatures all around the globe? From live science, "fossils are so abundant in the badlands of western Canada overall, "and why they are often found preserved so exquisitely," Eberth said.

Coastal floodplains such as those seen in modern Bangladesh can cover vast areas, with flooding killing hundreds of thousands of livestock, not to mention the human tragedies that occur.

"Because of their size and the scale of the flooding, dinosaurs could not escape the coastal floodwaters and would have been killed in large numbers," Eberth explained. "In contrast, fish, small reptiles, mammals, and birds may have been able to escape such seasonal catastrophes by retreating to quiet water areas, the safety of trees and burrows, or simply by flying away."

See also an excellent article on the creation science implications of these discoveries here: "Since fossilization, especially of a large dinosaur, not to speak of thousands of them in a bone bed, is a very rare event,4 the Genesis Flood provides a plausible mechanism for rapid fossilization." https://creation.com/watery-catastrophe-deduced-from-huge-ceratopsian-dinosaur-graveyard

3. Why are there hundreds of ancient records of a global flood - including one related in the time of Gilgamesh who lived around 2800 B.C., as secularists acknowledge? Please don't give us a modernist Freudian "pshycological" explanation of these facts. An actual global flood which countless diverse cultures experienced and recorded is the best explanation.

One could add some further questions to our evolutionary friends like "why do you believe there was catastrophic flooding on Mars(!) while refusing even to consider the possibility of a global flood back here on God's green (and blue!) Earth?" and "why don't you take these facts into account in your (mis)dating? Won't they very significantly alter your assumptions and the resultant dates?" but that will do for now.

For Christians, the Office informs us God became Incarnate "in the year 2959th from the flood, in the year 2015th from the birth of Abraham, in the year 1510th from the going forth of the people of Israel out of Egypt under Moses" and the actual scientific evidence overwhelmingly supports a global flood around 5000 years ago.

"there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood. These flood tales are frequently linked by common elements that parallel the Biblical account including the warning of the coming flood, the construction of a boat in advance, the storage of animals, the inclusion of family, and the release of birds to determine if the water level had subsided." http://nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 09:04:13 AM by Xavier »
Please Consecrate yourself to the Immaculate Heart daily, especially in the Sacred Month of August: Do never secede for any pretended reason from the Pope and the Bishops, and pray and work for the Pope and the Bishops to Consecrate Russia one day, as they infallibly will quite soon. Consecrate Russia yourself in Communion and in Union with the Pope and Bishops. Please consecrate aborted babies every day. You can save unborn children with every prayer for their Baptism that you say and help efficaciously end terrible abortion-killing worldwide.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ Please pray this daily and you and your family will be saved. You will avoid Purgatory.

A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. Please also offer the Precious Blood of Jesus' Heart to the Eternal Father, and our Lives in Sacrifice in Union with It, and with Mary's Immaculate Heart, that Jerusalem may be saved, Judah be restored, and the Jews may at long last happily be returned to saving Faith in Jesus Christ.
 
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Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 11:34:38 AM »
Three simple questions for our friends who support evolution/deny a global flood.

1. Why are there Fish Fossils in the Himalayas? From a news site on a recent discovery, "The mighty Himalayas, also known as ‘The Roof of the World’, rise up to an incredible height, disappearing into the clouds on some days. Some of the world’s highest peaks are in the Himalayas, including Mount Everest, which at 29,029 feet is the highest mountain in the world. At these altitudes, the air is thin, and the temperatures are extreme. The land is arid and brown, and it looks like it’s been this way since the beginning of time. These mighty mountains are hundreds of miles away from the closest sea. So how is it possible that marine fossils have been found in multiple locations in the Himalayas?"

I thought this one was fairly well-known.  I learned it as a schoolchild when we were studying continental drift: there are fossils of seashells in the Alps.  The reason for this is not that the earth was once covered entirely in water, but the fact that we live on a planet with moving tectonic plates: the land that formed the Alps was once underwater, but was pushed out and upwards as the African plate collided with the European plate, creating the Alpine range.  The Himalayas were formed in the same way, when the Indian subcontinent collided with Asia.  Obviously, if you believe the earth is only 5199 years old, then this explanation will not sit with you.  But we do, however, factually live on a planet with shifting tectonic plates (and if the earth is young, why is this so?)  Also, consider the problem of the floodwaters submerging even the Himalayas: do you realize how much water that would've been?  It raises the logical question: to where did the waters recede?  If the whole earth was covered in water, higher than the highest mountain, then that would be a "waterworld" from which there is no returning—or certainly not within the timescale of recorded human history.

2. Why are there watery graveyards of dinosaurs and other extinct creatures all around the globe? From live science, "fossils are so abundant in the badlands of western Canada overall, "and why they are often found preserved so exquisitely," Eberth said.

I'll have to punt on this one, Xavier; I'm not expert in all the variables that go into the diverse ways in which fossils are preserved.  I do know, however, than DNA is a more valuable record of life on earth than the fossil record is, due to the many factors that hinder fossilization.  The fossil record is hit-and-miss and woefully incomplete.  But I'm unclear on the dinosaur issue: are you contending that dinosaurs were on the ark?  That would be pretty amazing.  One thing that presents an intractable problem for a literal flood is that the bible provides the dimensions of the ark, and there is no logical way that the biomass of a pair of every species of land & air animal could fit on it, even if they were all juveniles.  Especially if you're including all the dinosaurs and the other species that have gone extinct, such as the Australian megafauna. 

The ark was only half the size of a modern aircraft carrier, which itself is nowhere near large enough to sustain the biomass you're alleging—especially since creationists don't believe speciation occurs (and besides, there wouldn't be enough time in the five thousand postdiluvian years for speciation to occur anyway).  Added to which: how were all these animals fed?  In Darren Aronofsky's movie Noah, he attempts to address this concern by having them put to sleep, in a scene where Jennifer Connelly and Emma Watson pace the bowels of the ark swinging censers, sending out billows of narcotic.  But logically it's still insufficient, since most mammals don't have a metabolism that can support hibernation (for this reason, humans and pets in comas must be fed and hydrated intravenously, as we know).  So the size of the ark could not house a pair or group of every species—not to mention the vast food supply for all these animals for the duration of the flood. 

3. Why are there hundreds of ancient records of a global flood - including one related in the time of Gilgamesh who lived around 2800 B.C., as secularists acknowledge? Please don't give us a modernist Freudian "pshycological" explanation of these facts. An actual global flood which countless diverse cultures experienced and recorded is the best explanation.

I'm afraid I don't find that the best explanation.  The best explanation is that every human population experiences natural disasters, and these things are terrifying and end up in their myths.  "What is thunder, Father?" "It is the sound of Thor's hammer when he's angry."  Similarly with floods and earthquakes.  We still see this persisting in the modern day.  When Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans, there were Evangelical eschatologists who averred it was God's wrath on a sinful nation.  (This is to never mind, apparently, the fact that hurricanes form naturally in the Atlantic every year and have been battering the Caribbean islands, eastern Mexico, and the American southeast for millennia).  It seems likely that the ancient Hebrews had elders who were like the Evangelicals we have today, who saw God's retributive hand behind natural disasters.  The flood is one such story, wrought on an epic scale: purgation by water.  "What is a rainbow, Father?"  "It is a reminder from God that He will never again flood the earth."

The bigger problem, as I've mentioned before, is how you account for the genetic diversity in the global dispersion of humans in the mere five thousand years following the flood: Scandinavians, Inuits, Pacific Islanders, Australian Aboriginals, Mayans, Hottentots, Celts, &c.  That's not genetically possible in so short a time frame from a such small homogeneous population.  As well as the geographical dispersion of the other species.  How did all the New World animals get there in such a short amount of time?  Why are kangaroos and other marsupials only found in Australia?  Even if they started hopping immediately after they were set free on Mount Ararat, that's a lot of hopping—not to mention a lot of water to get over for a species without boats.  What did they feed on in the barren wasteland ruinated by the deluge?  All the trees and plants would've died.  I suppose the carnivorous animals had it far easier than the herbivores when they came off the ark: they would've had an absolute smorgasbord to feast on.  A pair of lions coming off the ark would've created a mass extinction event just by consuming a normal leonine intake.  A lot of animals on the ark must've been saved only to become instant fodder for the T-Rexes, bears, wolves, great cats, and all the other predators.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 09:22:11 PM by Pon de Replay »
 
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Offline Xavier

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Re: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 01:13:16 PM »
Was the earth once covered in water, even before the flood? Creation science models can allow for that, becauase it is what in fact the Prophet Moses says in his eyewitness account of creation in Genesis. However, there were no animals created at this time. The fossils are from a later period. And if the earth was inundated with water once and then the waters receded later, why should it be thought impossible that that could happen again?

So marine fossils in the Himalayas is strongly indicative of a major global event much more recently in the history (after and not before their creation) of the animal kingdom. The fossils you mentioned in the Alps, Pon, are the same. How did the waters originally recede?

The watery graveyards of dinosaurs and other land creatures also demand for an explanation some kind of massive global watery catastrophe. You are ready to admit it on Mars, so why not on earth!

It's well known and acknowledged by evolutionists that extremely rapid fossilization of many animals took place in some places. A flood is consistent with that.

One reason evolutionists don't want to acknowledge a flood is it completely skews their dating of rocks. Also, they don't want to acknowledge the reality of an ever-present and Provident God Who alone could have delivered man from the flood caused by his sins, and Who safely provided for his journey in His Wisdom; Noah waited a long time in the Ark after the waters subsided, and sent the dove. Eventually, the waters would go back to the rivers and seas. Then, Noah went out.

Re: Gilgamesh. He is a figure well known to secularists and dated even by them at almost exactly the time of the flood. Here we are not talking about events in heaven. Both accounts plainly relate the historical fact of a flood about 5000 years ago, and the means that was provided for 8 people to escape from it. And there are countless beside of this very event. If we found so many ancient accounts attesting to any other event, we would take that as a most certain historical fact. Wouldn't we?
Please Consecrate yourself to the Immaculate Heart daily, especially in the Sacred Month of August: Do never secede for any pretended reason from the Pope and the Bishops, and pray and work for the Pope and the Bishops to Consecrate Russia one day, as they infallibly will quite soon. Consecrate Russia yourself in Communion and in Union with the Pope and Bishops. Please consecrate aborted babies every day. You can save unborn children with every prayer for their Baptism that you say and help efficaciously end terrible abortion-killing worldwide.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ Please pray this daily and you and your family will be saved. You will avoid Purgatory.

A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. Please also offer the Precious Blood of Jesus' Heart to the Eternal Father, and our Lives in Sacrifice in Union with It, and with Mary's Immaculate Heart, that Jerusalem may be saved, Judah be restored, and the Jews may at long last happily be returned to saving Faith in Jesus Christ.
 

Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2018, 02:49:31 PM »
Three simple questions for our friends who support evolution/deny a global flood.

You've shown a complete inability to think scientifically.  These questions are easily answered.  Moreover, I'll post these "simple" questions back at you.

Quote
1. Why are there Fish Fossils in the Himalayas?

Because fossils of fish formed in the normal way, before the Himalayas became the Himalayas.

Why aren't there fossils of fish everywhere in the world, if a global flood covered the entire globe?  40 days and 40 nights is ample time for dead fish to be completely everywhere.

Quote
2. Why are there watery graveyards of dinosaurs and other extinct creatures all around the globe?

Because they drowned in local floods.

Why isn't the whole globe a watery graveyard, if a global flood covered the entire globe?

Quote
3. Why are there hundreds of ancient records of a global flood - including one related in the time of Gilgamesh who lived around 2800 B.C., as secularists acknowledge? Please don't give us a modernist Freudian "pshycological" explanation of these facts. An actual global flood which countless diverse cultures experienced and recorded is the best explanation.

Because it's an ancient myth which got passed on from culture to culture, probably with its origin in a local, but catastrophic, flood.

Indeed, why are there so many records of a flood, when everyone in those cultures who experienced and recorded a global flood would be dead, and their records destroyed.


Quote
For Christians, the Office informs us God became Incarnate "in the year 2959th from the flood, in the year 2015th from the birth of Abraham, in the year 1510th from the going forth of the people of Israel out of Egypt under Moses" and the actual scientific evidence overwhelmingly supports a global flood around 5000 years ago.

The Office is wrong, if the flood is taken as global, and your interpretation of the scientific evidence is delusional.

 
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 03:01:49 PM »
How do you people have time for this?
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Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2018, 09:09:49 AM »
The fossils you mentioned in the Alps, Pon, are the same. How did the waters originally recede?

Are you asking me?  Begging your pardon, Xavier, but that's the question I asked you.  You are the one claiming that this planet was a "waterworld earth" five thousand years ago, with the global ocean covering even the tops of the Himalayas.  If that's the case, then to where did all that water go?  If you were a flat earther, I suppose you could say, "well, it drained off the sides," but with a spherical earth there's nowhere to go with it (and you are a spherical earther).

Consider that presently there are parts of the ocean where the depth is greater than the height of the Himalayas.  But not in most parts.  The average depth of the oceans is 12,000 feet.  The highest peak in the Himalayas, however, Mount Everest, is 29,000 feet.  So if you were to draw a concentric line around the globe denoting the water level rise—well, I don't know how to do the math precisely, but clearly just by looking at it you would be quadrupling (if not more) the water volume on the planet.  Where did it all "recede" to?

Peace be with you, but unanswered questions from my earlier posts yet remain:

1.  Given that all the rain water would've diluted the saltwater, how did the saltwater fish survive the desalination of the oceans?

2.  How did the bodies of water revert to being fresh- or salt-water after the flood?

3.  How did the genetic diversity of humans come about from a homogeneous population five thousand years ago?  The molecular clock requires much more time to get from eight Middle Easterners to the present genetic range between Scandinavians, Inuits, Pacific Islanders, Australian Aboriginals, Mayans, Hottentots, Celts, &c. 

4.  As well as the geographical dispersion of the other species: how did all the New World animals get there in such a short amount of time?  Why are kangaroos and other marsupials only found in Australia?  Even if they started hopping immediately after they were set free on Mount Ararat, that's a lot of hopping—not to mention a lot of water to get over for a species without boats. 

5.  What did the herbivores feed on in the barren wasteland ruinated by the deluge?  All the trees and plants would've died. 

6.  What did the carnivores feed on when they came off the ark?  Anything they ate would've been an extinction event.

Re: Gilgamesh. He is a figure well known to secularists and dated even by them at almost exactly the time of the flood. Here we are not talking about events in heaven. Both accounts plainly relate the historical fact of a flood about 5000 years ago, and the means that was provided for 8 people to escape from it. And there are countless beside of this very event. If we found so many ancient accounts attesting to any other event, we would take that as a most certain historical fact. Wouldn't we?

No, we would not.  For obvious reasons, most early human habitations were situated near water.  Rivers and lakes routinely flood.  It is far more likely that the myths of ancient cultures exaggerated the flooding they all experienced than that there was ever a global flood that covered the highest mountains.
 

Offline Xavier

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Re: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2018, 09:38:16 AM »
Evolutionists keep changing their story every few years. Some say the Himalayas formed 70 million years ago but huge fossils from large animals have clearly been found buried there long after the time.

Independent: "A FOSSILISED jawbone of the world's oldest whale has been discovered in the foothills of the Himalayas ... Scientists have dated the fossil to about 53.5 million years old, making it 3.5 million years older than the previous oldest known member of the whale family.

The ancient whale, called Himalayacetus subathuensis, probably only spent some of its time in water, returning to dry land to rest and breed ...

H. subathuensis is considerably older than a more recent whale ancestor, Pakicetus, which has also been linked with the ancient Tethys Sea separating Asia and the Indian subcontinent before they collided to form the Himalayan mountains.

Pakicetus is believed to have been the ancestor of the first truly ancient whale, archaeocetus, a fish-eater that grew to about the size of a modern porpoise and lived more than 35 million years ago."

These are stories for the gullible that keep man away from God.

Quote from: Quaremerepulisti
Because fossils of fish formed in the normal way, before the Himalayas became the Himalayas.

An absurd just-so story. When did the Himalayas form? When are these fossils dated to? Will you at least these finds are unexpected? When do evolutionary story-tellers claim these animals lived?

Quote
Because they drowned in local floods

False. So there was one huge local flood in the Americas and another huge local flood in Asia and others elsewhere. Where are the records of these local floods? What was the time period of these watery graveyards?

Quote
why are there so many records of a flood, when everyone in those cultures who experienced and recorded a global flood would be dead

You seem to be unaware of man's authentic history, being led astray by evolutionary stories. All men spoke only one language before the Tower of Babel in Gen 11. That Tower was a Babylonian Ziggurat built because of man's remembrance of the flood. More on that in another thread.

See how sympathy toward evolution gradually leads you to unbelief or uncertainty in almost everything the holy Prophets of Israel - who alone taught the whole world that the True God was One and Almighty - have handed down to us and the Church?

Quote
The Office is wrong, if the flood is taken as global,

We Christians will not be intimidated by evolutionist bullies. They are wrong. The Office and the Prophets are right and the scientific and historical evidence bears it out completely.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 12:31:24 PM by Xavier »
Please Consecrate yourself to the Immaculate Heart daily, especially in the Sacred Month of August: Do never secede for any pretended reason from the Pope and the Bishops, and pray and work for the Pope and the Bishops to Consecrate Russia one day, as they infallibly will quite soon. Consecrate Russia yourself in Communion and in Union with the Pope and Bishops. Please consecrate aborted babies every day. You can save unborn children with every prayer for their Baptism that you say and help efficaciously end terrible abortion-killing worldwide.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ Please pray this daily and you and your family will be saved. You will avoid Purgatory.

A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. Please also offer the Precious Blood of Jesus' Heart to the Eternal Father, and our Lives in Sacrifice in Union with It, and with Mary's Immaculate Heart, that Jerusalem may be saved, Judah be restored, and the Jews may at long last happily be returned to saving Faith in Jesus Christ.
 

Offline Xavier

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Re: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2018, 09:51:05 AM »
Will get back to you in a bit, Pon. Just want to put the record of the flood here which shows how long the Patriarch Noah had to wait in the Ark - there is archaeological evidence of the Ark and so the journey and the flood still in Armenia - and the actions the Lord God took to cause the waters to abate. God is Provident and takes care of His faithful.

7:16  And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in on the outside.
7:17  And the flood was forty days upon the earth: and the waters increased, and lifted up the ark on high from the earth.
7:18  For they overflowed exceedingly: and filled all on the face of the earth: and the ark was carried upon the waters.
7:19  And the waters prevailed beyond measure upon the earth: and all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered.
7:20  The water was fifteen cubits higher than the mountains which it covered.
7:21  And all flesh was destroyed that moved upon the earth, both of fowl and of cattle, and of beasts, and of all creeping things that creep upon the earth: and all men.
7:22  And all things wherein there is the breath of life on the earth, died.
7:23  And he destroyed all the substance that was upon the earth, from man even to beast, and the creeping things and fowls of the air: and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noe only remained, and they that were with him in the ark.
7:24  And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days.
Genesis 8
8:1  And God remembered Noe, and all the living creatures, and all the cattle which were with him in the ark, and brought a wind upon the earth, and the waters were abated:
8:2  The fountains also of the deep, and the floodgates of heaven, were shut up, and the rain from heaven was restrained.
8:3  And the waters returned from off the earth going and coming: and they began to be abated after a hundred and fifty days.
8:4  And the ark rested in the seventh month, the seven and twentieth day of the month, upon the mountains of Armenia.
8:5  And the waters were going and decreasing until the tenth month: for in the tenth month, the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains appeared.
8:6  And after that forty days were passed, Noe opening the window of the ark, which he had made, sent forth a raven:
8:7  Which went forth and did not return, till the waters were dried up upon the earth.
8:8  He sent forth also a dove after him, to see if the waters had now ceased upon the face of the earth.
8:9  But she not finding where her foot might rest, returned to him into the ark: for the waters were upon the whole earth: and he put forth his hand, and caught her, and brought her into the ark.
8:10  And having waited yet seven other days, he again sent forth the dove out of the ark.
8:11  And she came to him in the evening carrying a bough of an olive tree, with green leaves, in her mouth. Noe therefore understood that the waters were ceased upon the earth.
8:12  And he stayed yet other seven days: and he sent forth the dove, which returned not any more unto him.
8:13  Therefore in the six hundredth and first year, the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were lessened upon the earth, and Noe opening the covering of the ark, looked, and saw that the face of the earth was dried.
8:14  In the second month, the seven and twentieth day of the month, the earth was dried.
Please Consecrate yourself to the Immaculate Heart daily, especially in the Sacred Month of August: Do never secede for any pretended reason from the Pope and the Bishops, and pray and work for the Pope and the Bishops to Consecrate Russia one day, as they infallibly will quite soon. Consecrate Russia yourself in Communion and in Union with the Pope and Bishops. Please consecrate aborted babies every day. You can save unborn children with every prayer for their Baptism that you say and help efficaciously end terrible abortion-killing worldwide.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Holiness Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and His Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ Please pray this daily and you and your family will be saved. You will avoid Purgatory.

A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. Please also offer the Precious Blood of Jesus' Heart to the Eternal Father, and our Lives in Sacrifice in Union with It, and with Mary's Immaculate Heart, that Jerusalem may be saved, Judah be restored, and the Jews may at long last happily be returned to saving Faith in Jesus Christ.
 

Offline GloriaPatri

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Re: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2018, 11:03:44 AM »
Evolutionists keep changing their story every few years. Some say the Himalayas formed 70 million years ago but huge fossils from large animals have clearly been found buried there long after the time.

Independent: "A FOSSILISED jawbone of the world's oldest whale has been discovered in the foothills of the Himalayas ... Scientists have dated the fossil to about 53.5 million years old, making it 3.5 million years older than the previous oldest known member of the whale family.

The ancient whale, called Himalayacetus subathuensis, probably only spent some of its time in water, returning to dry land to rest and breed ...

H. subathuensis is considerably older than a more recent whale ancestor, Pakicetus, which has also been linked with the ancient Tethys Sea separating Asia and the Indian subcontinent before they collided to form the Himalayan mountains.

Pakicetus is believed to have been the ancestor of the first truly ancient whale, archaeocetus, a fish-eater that grew to about the size of a modern porpoise and lived more than 35 million years ago."

These are stories for the gullible that keep man away from God.

Quote from: Quaremerepulisti
Because fossils of fish formed in the normal way, before the Himalayas became the Himalayas.

An absurd just-so story. When did the Himalayas form? When are these fossils dated to? Will you at least these finds are unexpected? When do evolutionary story-tellers claim these animals lived?

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Because they drowned in local floods

False. So there was one huge local flood in the Americas and another huge local flood in Asia and others elsewhere. Where are the records of these local floods? What was the time period of these watery graveyards?

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why are there so many records of a flood, when everyone in those cultures who experienced and recorded a global flood would be dead

You seem to be unaware of man's authentic history, being led astray by evolutionary stories. All men spoke only one language before the Tower of Babel in Gen 11. That Tower was a Babylonian Ziggurat built because of man's remembrance of the flood. More on that in another thread.

See how sympathy toward evolution gradually leads you to unbelief or uncertainty in almost everything the holy Prophets of Israel - who alone taught the whole world that the True God was One and Infinite - have handed down to us and the Church?

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The Office is wrong, if the flood is taken as global,

We Christians will not be intimidated by evolutionist bullies. They are wrong. The Office and the Prophets are right and the scientific and historical evidence bears it out completely.

1. The Himalayas formed at least 10 million years ago, when the Indian tectonic plate collided with the Eurasian plate. That is borne out by modern geology. The Indian plate was (and is) forced under the Eurasian plate, in turn pushing the Eurasian plate up. That is what formed the Himalayan range.

2. The fossils found on the Himalayas are older than 10 million years old (just one example, a whale, was dated to ~50 million years old. These fossils were under water prior to the collision of India with Eurasia. As I mentioned in point (1), this collision forced the edge of the Eurasian plate upward, above ocean level.

3. Most ancient societies, as Pon already mentioned, lived near water sources for obvious reasons. Many major river systems experience periodic flooding periods. It's likely that disparate cultures tell broadly similar stories because they experience similar catastrophic events in their pre-rational history. Alternatively, when the last major Ice Age ended and the glacial plates receded to the poles the sea levels across the world rose fairly rapidly. Coastal communities worldwide would have oral histories recounting how the oceans rose and flooded their coastal homes.

4. The Mesopotamian Ziggurats and Egyptian pyramids are approx. 5000 years old. But we know that even before their construction that the Egyptians and the Summerians had different languages and different forms of writing (Sumerian cuneiform has absolutely no similarities with Egyptian hieroglyphics). The idea that mankind all spoke the same language a mere 5000 years ago is emphatically false. Humanity was too dispersed for too long a time with no means of worldwide communication to maintain linguistic homogeneity.

5. You still haven't answered Pon's questions. And I have a few of my own:

a) Where did the water for a global flood come from? Even if all of the ice in the world melted, the ocean level wouldn't rise high enough to flood the highest mountains.

b) Where did this water even recede to? The Earth's crust is fairly solid, it's not porous like a sponge is. There is no network of massive underground caverns that could have even held the water.

c) How did Noah and his family, let alone the animals, breathe in the much thinner air that existed several miles above the pre-flood sea level?

d) What exactly did everyone eat after the flood? 5 miles or more of water would've scoured the Earth's surface of vegetation. I mean, just look at the deep ocean floor. There is no plant life down there.

e) Furthermore, the Bible mentions the same rivers existing before and after the flood. But a global flood of the size intimated by Scripture would've completely rewritten the course of rivers and streams after the water receded. How is that possible?

f) And finally, given that salt water and fresh water fish require very specific saline levels to live (iow a salt water fish can not live in fresh water and vice versa) how the heck did all of the fish survive the flood given the rapid change in not only salt levels, but also water temperature and pH levels?

 
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Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: The Flood of Noah and fish fossils in the Himalayas.
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2018, 02:00:34 PM »
Evolutionists keep changing their story every few years. Some say the Himalayas formed 70 million years ago but huge fossils from large animals have clearly been found buried there long after the time.

You STILL haven't answered any of the questions asked at you.  All you have is rhetoric.  All you can do is talk about "evolutionist just-so stories" and "absurdities", without actually showing they are, in fact, such. 

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Quote from: Quaremerepulisti
Because fossils of fish formed in the normal way, before the Himalayas became the Himalayas.

An absurd just-so story. When did the Himalayas form? When are these fossils dated to? Will you at least these finds are unexpected? When do evolutionary story-tellers claim these animals lived?

There's absolutely nothing absurd about fossils forming before mountains come to be.

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Quote
Because they drowned in local floods

False. So there was one huge local flood in the Americas and another huge local flood in Asia and others elsewhere. Where are the records of these local floods? What was the time period of these watery graveyards?

Given what we know about metereology and weather, it's pretty certain there will be local floods from time to time in various places.  And it's not absurd to think that the survivors would make records of them.

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Quote
why are there so many records of a flood, when everyone in those cultures who experienced and recorded a global flood would be dead

You seem to be unaware of man's authentic history, being led astray by evolutionary stories. All men spoke only one language before the Tower of Babel in Gen 11. That Tower was a Babylonian Ziggurat built because of man's remembrance of the flood. More on that in another thread.

Well first of all, all men did not speak only one language prior to the Tower of Babel.  There are ample records in many languages which predate the Tower of Babel by quite a lot.  But anyway.  What does this have to do with anything?  Whoever experienced a global flood (except for those on the Ark) would be dead, and incapable of recording it, Tower of Babel or no.

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See how sympathy toward evolution gradually leads you to unbelief or uncertainty in almost everything the holy Prophets of Israel - who alone taught the whole world that the True God was One and Almighty - have handed down to us and the Church?

Too bad. 

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We Christians will not be intimidated by evolutionist bullies. They are wrong. The Office and the Prophets are right and the scientific and historical evidence bears it out completely.

Believe what you like, but you're delusional.
 
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