Author Topic: Is it lawful to pray for the Baptism of Aborted and other dying Babies?  (Read 743 times)

Offline Xavier

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While we hope for an abortion victory on Monday, here's a difficult theological matter - and also sometimes a tragic, painful matter for many parents - related to it to tackle: Can aborted babies, and other such prematurely dying babies, receive some emergency means of Baptism? It's of obvious importance because of the billions of babies' lives (and babies' souls?) lost to this abortion holocaust in this lost last century and last few decades.

The question of Baptism of Blood or Desire for infants (vicarious desire; the faith, love, tears, contrition and prayerful desire of parents, as proposed by Cardinal Cajetan, please see below) is considered by some to be definitively closed. Yet Dr. Ludwig Ott wrote, "Other emergency means of baptism for children dying without sacramental baptism, such as prayer and the desire of the parents or the Church (vicarious baptism of desire—Cajetan), or the attainment of the use of reason in the moment of death, so that the dying child can decide for or against God (baptism of desire—H. Klee), or suffering and death of the child as quasi-Sacrament (baptism of suffering—H. Schell), are indeed possible, but their actuality cannot be proved from Revelation. Cf. Denzinger 712." Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Book 2, Section 2, § 25 (p. 114 of the 1963 edition). Of course a theological study under Pope John Paul II released a document concluding, "What has been revealed to us is that the ordinary way of salvation is by the sacrament of Baptism. None of the above considerations should be taken as qualifying the necessity of Baptism or justifying delay in administering the sacrament.[135] Rather, as we want to reaffirm in conclusion, they provide strong grounds for hope that God will save infants when we have not been able to do for them what we would have wished to do, namely, to Baptize them into the faith and life of the Church." Questions:

1. So, is there some hope for the Baptism of aborted babies? Can we hope, pray for, and desire such a thing, and lovingly ask it of God, resigned and surrendered to His will, yet also believing God "wills to save all", Christ "died for all" and "no one is lost without his own fault"?

2. Is there evidence in Revelation of souls being sanctified in the womb?  And of souls receiving the Baptism of Blood? St. Thomas says there were souls whom God sanctified in the womb, which must have been a kind of vicarious Baptism of Desire.

3. Finally, even if one actually wanted to take a strict Feeneyite view of "water baptism only" with regard to children, is it really beyond the power of God to wash children in water in answer to foreseen prayers? St. Bernard once said to a mother who had suffered such a tragedy, "Your faith spoke for this child. Baptism for this child was only delayed by time. Your faith suffices. The waters of your womb—were they not the waters of life for this child? Look at your tears. Are they not like the waters of baptism? Do not fear this! God’s ability to love is greater than our fears. Surrender everything to God!"

On so importance a subject, it would be helpful if there were some direct guidance from God. There appears to be a private revelation in Africa, authorized to be published by the Bishops, but not yet fully confirmed as supernatural, where the Lord Jesus is reported to have said:

Quote
Prayer for the Baptism of Aborted Babies (29 July 1998)

"Today the blood of innocent children has filled heaven. Their number is too great, too great . . . the wrath of the Eternal Father is about to fall on mankind...Their blood disturbs My Agonizing Heart and increases My agony...Through this prayer, large numbers of innocent unborn babies will be saved. Pray it daily and make it known to the world. Anyone who teaches it will not be lost. Innocent souls in heaven will not let them become lost. I, with My Love and Mercy, will protect them from falling into mortal sin."

Heavenly Father, Your love is eternal. In Your ocean of love, You saved the world through Your only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Now look at Your only Son on the Cross Who is constantly bleeding for love of His people, and forgive Your world. Purify and baptize aborted children with the Precious Blood and water from the Sacred Side of Your Son, Jesus Christ, Who hung dead on the Cross for their salvation; in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. May they, through the holy death of Jesus Christ, gain everlasting life, through His wounds be healed and through His Precious Blood be freed. There to rejoice with the saints in heaven. Amen.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 01:13:49 AM by Xavier »
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Offline Gardener

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Titular question answer: Yes and No; by baptism we are really saying the action of grace in removing original/actual sin (in the case of infants only the former). St. Thomas addresses this in ST/III/Q68/Art11/Reply Objection1: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4068.htm#article11

That action, extraordinary sanctification, is what we are able to, and should in charity, pray for.
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Offline Daniel

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« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 10:00:40 AM by Daniel »
 

Offline Carleendiane

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Titular question answer: Yes and No; by baptism we are really saying the action of grace in removing original/actual sin (in the case of infants only the former). St. Thomas addresses this in ST/III/Q68/Art11/Reply Objection1: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4068.htm#article11

That action, extraordinary sanctification, is what we are able to, and should in charity, pray for.

Thank you for this^^^^^ Gardener.
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Offline St.Justin

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I don't know why anyone would ask a question like this. It is not only "lawful" but it is asked of us that we pray unceasingly. If the prayer is "misdirected" God will take care of it.
 
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Offline mikemac

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I don't know why anyone would ask a question like this. It is not only "lawful" but it is asked of us that we pray unceasingly. If the prayer is "misdirected" God will take care of it.

I imagine the question was asked because it has been posted in this forum in the past that an aborted child has no hope in making it into heaven.

It's a beautiful prayer.

On so importance a subject, it would be helpful if there were some direct guidance from God. There appears to be a private revelation in Africa, authorized to be published by the Bishops, but not yet fully confirmed as supernatural, where the Lord Jesus is reported to have said:

Quote
Prayer for the Baptism of Aborted Babies (29 July 1998)

"Today the blood of innocent children has filled heaven. Their number is too great, too great . . . the wrath of the Eternal Father is about to fall on mankind...Their blood disturbs My Agonizing Heart and increases My agony...Through this prayer, large numbers of innocent unborn babies will be saved. Pray it daily and make it known to the world. Anyone who teaches it will not be lost. Innocent souls in heaven will not let them become lost. I, with My Love and Mercy, will protect them from falling into mortal sin."

Heavenly Father, Your love is eternal. In Your ocean of love, You saved the world through Your only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ. Now look at Your only Son on the Cross Who is constantly bleeding for love of His people, and forgive Your world. Purify and baptize aborted children with the Precious Blood and water from the Sacred Side of Your Son, Jesus Christ, Who hung dead on the Cross for their salvation; in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. May they, through the holy death of Jesus Christ, gain everlasting life, through His wounds be healed and through His Precious Blood be freed. There to rejoice with the saints in heaven. Amen.
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Offline james03

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Abortion the Novus Ordo sacrament.  Guaranteed Heaven.  We should abort every baby from here on out.  Our motto: "Not one more person will be lost to hell."  Abort them all.
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Offline Xavier

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Yes, Gardener, in the link, St. Thomas says, "Children while in the mother's womb have not yet come forth into the world to live among other men. Consequently they cannot be subject to the action of man, so as to receive the sacrament, at the hands of man, unto salvation. They can, however, be subject to the action of God, in Whose sight they live, so as, by a kind of privilege, to receive the grace of sanctification; as was the case with those who were sanctified in the womb." (ST, Tertia Pars, Q 68, A 11, Reply to objection 1)

I'm well aware there will be opponents of this possibility, who will frighten even grieving mothers stating with dogmatic certainty that all prematurely dying children will be blind to the beatific vision for all eternity, and have their bodies and souls cast to the uppermost parts of hell after the general judgment. Fully subject to correction by the Magisterium and the Church, I argue against that based on Scripture and Tradition.

1. A study of Scripture and Tradition leaves no doubt the Holy Innocents were baptized in their blood. This is certain and denied by no one. St. Alphonsus and Fr. Suarez say it would be temerarious to deny it. The children thus saved by Baptism of Blood need not even have had a conscious intention, but the evil will of their persecutors would have sufficed for Christ to confer the grace of sanctification upon them.

2. That raises the question of Baptism of Desire or in voto; can children be saved by the holy intention of their parents, if they can be saved in the course of evil intentions by murderers? Is there a Scriptural example of sanctification in the womb? Yes! John the Baptist, who St. Montfort and St. Ambrose - also St. Gabriel, "He shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb" (Luk 1:15) - say was sanctified in the womb, also one of those St. Thomas is speaking of. This came about either by the faith, love and desire of St. Elizabeth, his mother, or more likely, the prayers of Mary and the love of the Infant Jesus who visited and sanctified His unborn cousin in the womb, while St. Elizabeth prayed "Blessed art Thou among women and Blessed is the Fruit of Your Womb". Will God refuse the same to us, as we pray that same prayer?

3. What of Jewish girl children living under the old covenant, if circumcision was the only means (and not the only ordinary means) God accepted for the sanctification of children in the OT, how did they make it to heaven? And Gentile children of parents who were just? Cajetan speaks of all this: while caution is necessary in explaining this to the laity, lest anyone delay baptism for their child after birth on that account, many theologians discussed the possibility that God would sanctify children based on the loving desire and prayers of their parents, just like He had in the Old. And they cautiously suggest there are grounds for hope of that.

Thanks, Mike. One of a priest's greatest joys is baptizing a child in the fountain of regeneration. In a sense, the priest becomes a true Father of the child in doing so, St. Paul calls Timothy and others his dear son and true child in the Faith also in this sense. Even godparents contract a spiritual affinity with the baptized child. We can pray that prayer and piously hope one child will be saved by a drop of that blood and water that flowed from Our Lord's Heart when we do. And those children will love us for all eternity, with a child's love for his father or mother! That should motivate everyone to pray for them. And even if, as is possible, they may have to wait till the end of time to be carried to heaven, they will love us for all eternity as children love their parents when they do. I wish millions of souls would "adopt" these children and pray and hope for them.

And that's not an argument, James. By that argument, we should kill all baptized babies to ensure they go to heaven. The ends do not justify the means and we can never commit an evil act that good may come out of it. That a baptized child will go to heaven is absolutely certain, yet it is obviously unlawful to kill that child on that account. That a child for whom a mother, a father, a priest or a loving stranger who "spiritually adopts" that child and prays for him to be baptized, will indeed be saved is not yet absolutely certain, but is based on solid grounds of prayerful hope. But in any case, killing them would be a crime, no matter if God chooses to bring good of the evil that we do or not.

Some of these were discussed in more detail on this thread. https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=19111.msg424324#msg424324
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 08:42:42 AM by Xavier »
Please listen to the frequent messages and take heed of the directions given from Our Living Lord and Our Loving Lady from around the world here: https://maryrefugeofholylove.com/ Great things are at stake. Please consecrate your life to the Blessed Mother so that the Kingdom of God may come, "Ad Sanctam Trinitatem per Mariam, Ut adveniat Regnum Deum, adveniat Regnum Mariae, ergo TOTUS TUUS ego sum, MARIA" See http://www.maria-domina-animarum.net/en/flowers/1-250

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ It is recommended that you make this Life Offering as soon as you feel ready, and to renew it from time to time.

Please read the Blessed Mother's amazing promises in the link: A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. The Doctors and Apostles say if we save even just one other soul through prayer and sacrifice, we also ensure the salvation of our own! Let us Offer our Lives in Sacrifice to Jesus and Mary Today, to save, if it were possible, all souls everywhere.
 
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Offline james03

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Quote
The children thus saved by Baptism of Blood need not even have had a conscious intention, but the evil will of their persecutors would have sufficed for Christ to confer the grace of sanctification upon them.

Believing that would be heresy.  Jesus had not suffered His passion yet.  Are you arguing that they opened up heaven and welcomed Jesus into heaven?

These kids went where all jewish kids went.  To Limbo.  They waited there until Jesus freed them from hell.
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Offline james03

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And that's not an argument, James. By that argument, we should kill all baptized babies to ensure they go to heaven.
I concede the point, you are correct.

Quote
That a child for whom a mother, a father, a priest or a loving stranger who "spiritually adopts" that child
  Mormonism. 

The belief that aborted babies go to heaven relies on a few errors:

1.  Cartesian dualism.   There's a "ghost" of the aborted baby that is given a glorified body in heaven.

2.  The erroneous belief in moslem heaven, what I call the never ending summer block party heaven.

3.  A misunderstanding of the baptism of blood.  The aborted baby does not die confessing Christ.

4.  A denial that Faith in Christ is required for salvation.

This is especially revealed when we consider babies that are aborted (murdered) by the morning after pill.  Here you have an undifferentiated embryo (still a human person with an eternal form).  That form can not have Faith in Christ. It is eternal, so it exists in Limbo and does not suffer.  However I am hard pressed to say it has eternal natural happiness in Limbo.  I'll say it will have any natural happiness that it can have.

Quote
I'm well aware there will be opponents of this possibility, who will frighten even grieving mothers
  Emotionalism should be avoided when considering dogma.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2018, 11:45:27 AM by james03 »
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."
 
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Offline heddi

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The right to pray is neither lawful or unlawful. Pray with intentions is part of our relationship with God. The children, his creations in which women do not accept and therefore end their lives, also were given a soul. These children, I believe return to their heavenly Father, as he he is cognizance in all things.  Pray for the women who fell from the path, as Jesus taught us in his message to love and to forgive, for they too are children of God.
 

Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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These children, I believe return to their heavenly Father, as he he is cognizance in all things.

With respect, it doesn't matter what you believe, but what the Church teaches.  God is just and merciful, so we trust that, while they may not enjoy the Beatific Vision, they are in a place of peace.

Quote
Finally, even if one actually wanted to take a strict Feeneyite view of "water baptism only" with regard to children, is it really beyond the power of God to wash children in water in answer to foreseen prayers? St. Bernard once said to a mother who had suffered such a tragedy, "Your faith spoke for this child. Baptism for this child was only delayed by time. Your faith suffices. The waters of your womb—were they not the waters of life for this child?

Speaking as a "strict Feeneyite"  :P, I often mediate upon the waters of the womb possibly acting as a baptism in some scenarios.  It's a beautiful, consoling thought, but as James said "Emotionalism should be avoided when considering dogma."   It's easy to be swayed from doctrine when we move from objective thinking.

Regardless, I trust in His Perfect Justice.
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Offline james03

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These children, I believe return to their heavenly Father

Cartesian Dualism.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."
 

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Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Probably Limbo. Leave it to Christ to decide.
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Offline james03

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I often mediate upon the waters of the womb possibly acting as a baptism in some scenarios.
  About the only thing plausible as the parents provide the Faith in Christ.  I'm dubious about it, but pray if you want.

Aborted babies whom the mother wants to kill?  No dice.

Also, why are we talking about "Baptism"?  We're talking about praying people into heaven.  This is the Mormon heresy.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."
 
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