Author Topic: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days  (Read 494 times)

Offline LausTibiChriste

  • #ImpeachFrancis2018
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5514
  • Thanked: 2528 times
  • sip sip
  • Religion: Catholic
Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« on: April 20, 2018, 11:47:33 AM »
Already PM'd the King about this, but wanted to get your guys' input too.

Mrs Laus To Be and I want to be wed on a 2nd class feast day. Old manuals stipulate no nuptials on this day, but as HK put it this is akin to the communion fast from midnight - was the tradition but has gone to the way side. Any thoughts for or against?

Additionally - even if we're not allowed a nuptial Mass, we can still marry and have the nuptial blessing in the context of the Mass of that day, correct?
‎"Traditionalists are some of the worst modernists on the planet"
     -Fr. Chad Ripperger

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
     -Wayne Gretzky
          -Michael Scott
 
The following users thanked this post: Carleendiane

Offline The Harlequin King

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3438
  • Thanked: 1099 times
    • Modern Medievalism
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2018, 12:05:18 PM »
To be more specific, I believe it was the rubrical revisions of 1960 which elevated the rank of votive nuptial Masses. If you look at early 20th century texts, they'll say the nuptial Mass has no Gloria. But the Gloria was prescribed from 1960 on.

See the 1960 Rubricae Generales: http://divinumofficium.com/www/horas/Help/Rubrics/Missal1960%20rubrics.html

Quote
I - Votive Masses of the 2nd Class in General
341. By a votive Mass of the 2nd class is meant a votive Mass which may be celebrated on all liturgical days of the 2nd , 3rd and 4th class. The Mass for bride and bridegroom and the Mass of thanksgiving on the 25th or 50th wedding anniversary are prohibited, however, on all Sundays.

342. Votive Masses of the 2nd class, provided for by the general rubrics, are:
   a)   the Mass at the solemn blessing of a church or oratory, and at the consecration of an altar (no. 345);
   b)   the Mass of the rogations on the greater and lesser litanies (nos 346-347); c)   votive Masses on the occasion of the Forty Hours devotion or some other exposition of the Blessed Sacrament (nos. 348-355);
   d)   Masses of the external solemnity of feasts (nos. 356-361);
   e)   The Mass on the day of the coronation of the pope and on the anniversaries of the pope and of the diocesan bishop (nos. 362-365);
   f)   A Mass for a matter of public importance (pro re gravi et publica simul causa) (nos. 366-368);
   g)   The Mass “for the propagation of the Faith” (no. 369);
   h)   Masses on certain special occasions (nos. 370-372);
   i)   Votive Masses at shrines (nos. 373-377);
   j)   The votive Mass “for Bride and Bridegroom” and the Mass of thanksgiving on the 25th and 50th wedding anniversary (nos. 378-382).

343. The privileges of votive Masses of the 2nd class are:
   a)   they are said Gloria, unless violet vestments are used; but without creed, unless it is said by reason of an occurring Sunday or octave;
   b)   they admit of only one commemoration, and they exclude a collect ordered by the local ordinary;
   c)   the collect of the impeded votive Mass is added under a single conclusion to the collect of the Mass of the day, provided a day listed under nos. 1, 2, 3 and 8 in the table of precedence does not occur; the prescription at no. 380 is observed, however;
   d)   if they are sung , the solemn tone is used.

And:

Quote
XI - The Votive Mass “For Bride and Bridegroom” and the Mass of Thanksgiving on the 25th and 50th Wedding Anniversary
378. The votive Mass “For Bride and Bridegroom,” or at least its collect in the Mass of the day which impedes it, is permitted whenever a wedding is celebrated, whether outside of the closed time or even in the closed time, if the local ordinary for a good reason has permitted the solemn nuptial blessing.

379. Besides the days on which votive Masses of the 2nd class are prohibited, the Mass “For Bride and Bridegroom” is prohibited also on Sundays and whenever, according to no. 381c, the nuptial blessing cannot be given.

380. Whenever the Mass “For Bride and Bridegroom,” but not the nuptial blessing, is prohibited, the Mass of the office of the day is said, and to its collect is added under a single conclusion the collect of the impeded votive Mass, even on those days on which, according to no. 343c, a commemoration of an impeded votive Mass of the 2nd class is prohibited; and the nuptial blessing is given in the usual way in the Mass of the day.
But when both the Mass “For the Bride and Bridegroom” and the nuptial blessing are prohibited, the Mass together with the blessing may be transferred to a timely unimpeded day, after the marriage has been celebrated.

381. With regard to the Mass “For the Bride and Bridegroom” and the nuptial blessing, these points shall also be observed:
   a)   The nuptial blessing is inseparable from the Mass. Hence, it cannot be given outside of the Mass, unless by apostolic indult; in which case it is to be imparted according to the formula which is found in the Roman ritual, tit. 8, ch. 3;
   b)   The nuptial blessing within the Mass must be given by the priest who is celebrating the Mass, even if another priest has presided over the marriage;
   c)   The nuptial blessing is omitted if the spouses are not present; and it is omitted if both of them or one of them has already received the blessing. Wherever the custom prevails, however, of imparting the blessing if only the man has received it, that custom may be retained;
   d)   On the commemoration of All the Faithful Departed and during the sacred triduum, the votive Mass and its commemoration in the Mass of the day and the nuptial blessing within the Mass are all prohibited.

382. For thanksgiving on the 25th or 50th wedding anniversary, either the Mass of the Most Holy Trinity or a Mass of the Blessed Virgin Mary may be said as a votive Mass of the 2nd class, the collect for thanksgiving being added under a single conclusion with the first collect.
After the Mass, the prayers found in the Roman ritual tit. 8, ch. 7, are said over the couple.

Of course, if you want to go old-school and have Mass of the feast instead, that's also an option. But I think, especially if you have a lot of guests who have never been to a TLM before, the votive nuptial Mass is the better choice.
 
The following users thanked this post: LausTibiChriste

Offline LausTibiChriste

  • #ImpeachFrancis2018
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5514
  • Thanked: 2528 times
  • sip sip
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2018, 12:06:57 PM »
I'm all for old school. I'm putting a lock and chain on the organ so I don't gotta listen to that trash.
‎"Traditionalists are some of the worst modernists on the planet"
     -Fr. Chad Ripperger

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
     -Wayne Gretzky
          -Michael Scott
 

Offline Lynne

  • happy to be Catholic!
  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9174
  • Thanked: 3929 times
  • We're all special snowflakes
  • Religion: Catholic (SSPX)
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2018, 12:17:37 PM »
I don't have any liturgical knowledge to add to the thread. I just want to express my joy in reading it.  :cheeseheadbeer:
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michaels Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When youre supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.
 
The following users thanked this post: LausTibiChriste

Offline The Harlequin King

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3438
  • Thanked: 1099 times
    • Modern Medievalism
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2018, 12:27:22 PM »
I'm all for old school. I'm putting a lock and chain on the organ so I don't gotta listen to that trash.

I would further advise outfitting all the servers in huge billowy English surplices and giving all the major ministers real tonsures.
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaesekopf, LausTibiChriste, Lynne, aquinas138

Offline Der Polka-Knig

  • Inquietum est cor nostrum, donec requiescat in te.
  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 302
  • Thanked: 128 times
  • Ein Ma dunkles, bitte!
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2018, 12:38:20 PM »
Well, from the time of Pope Benedict XV (i.e. the implementation of St Pius X's Divino afflatu) until the 1960 revisions, the rubrics would call for the Mass of the 2nd Class feast, with the commemoration of the Nuptial Mass sub unica conclusione cum prima, and with the Nuptial Blessing after the Pater Noster and after the Ite, Missa est included (cf. Additiones et Variationes in Rubricis Missalis, II, 2).

The actual Tridentine rubrics don't really say anything directly about the Nuptial Mass, but in effect would be the same as the Divino afflatu revision.

Of course, if you want to go old-school and have Mass of the feast instead, that's also an option. But I think, especially if you have a lot of guests who have never been to a TLM before, the votive nuptial Mass is the better choice.

That is certainly a point to consider.
"The Modernists pass the same judgment on the most holy Fathers of the Church as they pass on tradition; decreeing, with amazing effrontery that, while personally most worthy of all veneration, they were entirely ignorant of history and criticism, for which they are only excusable on account of the time in which they lived. Finally, the Modernists try in every way to diminish and weaken the authority of the ecclesiastical magisterium itself by sacrilegiously falsifying its origin, character, and rights, and by freely repeating the calumnies of its adversaries."

-- St Pius X, Pascendi Dominici Gregis
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaesekopf

Offline Kaesekopf

  • Enkindle in us the virtues of humility and patience So we too may obediently do your will faithfully.
  • Oberst
  • Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 20516
  • Thanked: 6165 times
    • Suscipe Domine
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2018, 12:45:32 PM »
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.
 
The following users thanked this post: LausTibiChriste

Offline MilesChristi

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Thanked: 885 times
  • Santiago Matamoros, Ora pro Nobis
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2018, 01:06:04 PM »
Already PM'd the King about this, but wanted to get your guys' input too.

Mrs Laus To Be and I want to be wed on a 2nd class feast day. Old manuals stipulate no nuptials on this day, but as HK put it this is akin to the communion fast from midnight - was the tradition but has gone to the way side. Any thoughts for or against?

Additionally - even if we're not allowed a nuptial Mass, we can still marry and have the nuptial blessing in the context of the Mass of that day, correct?

Congratulations
The world is charged with the grandeur of God.
    It will flame out, like shining from shook foil;
    It gathers to a greatness, like the ooze of oil
Crushed. Why do men then now not reck his rod?
Generations have trod, have trod, have trod;
    And all is seared with trade; bleared, smeared with toil;
    And wears man's smudge and shares man's smell: the soil
Is bare now, nor can foot feel, being shod.

And for all this, nature is never spent;
    There lives the dearest freshness deep down things;
And though the last lights off the black West went
    Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs
Because the Holy Ghost over the bent
    World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings.
 

Offline LausTibiChriste

  • #ImpeachFrancis2018
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5514
  • Thanked: 2528 times
  • sip sip
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 01:29:17 PM »
Mrs Laus To Be

That poor, poor woman.

Youre telling me. I can barely live with me
‎"Traditionalists are some of the worst modernists on the planet"
     -Fr. Chad Ripperger

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
     -Wayne Gretzky
          -Michael Scott
 

Offline Maximilian

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5131
  • Thanked: 2773 times
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2018, 02:10:57 PM »
I was at a wedding not too long ago held on Dec 27th.
The Mass was the Mass of St. John the Evangelist.

The wedding ceremony was performed, and the nuptial blessing was given. But the readings were those of the day.
 
The following users thanked this post: Kaesekopf

Offline dymphnaw

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 321
  • Thanked: 159 times
Re: Nuptial Mass on Second Class feast days
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 03:59:44 PM »
Why don't you just ask your priest? :huh: