Author Topic: "Descended into paradise"‽ Hell = paradise for Protestants‽  (Read 344 times)

Offline Geremia

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The myriads of diabolic Protestant sects actually include those whose diabolical creeds says "He descended into paradise" instead of the actual Article V ("He descended into hell etc.")! The random "reasons" given for this diabolical view are 1 Peter 3:18 and Luke 23:43!

Offline Penitent

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Re: "Descended into paradise"‽ Hell = paradise for Protestants‽
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2018, 02:22:01 PM »
They'll really be surprised when they get there...
 

Offline abc123

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Re: "Descended into paradise"‽ Hell = paradise for Protestants‽
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2018, 04:49:41 PM »
This looks like one 'pastor's' personal webpage with his own personal creed. I hardly think he speaks for Protestants. I'm sure I could find some priest somewhere who baptizes in the name of the Creator, Sustainer and Sanctifier if you gave me enough time.
The Ever-Virgin Mary, crushing within herself—and crushing in the whole human race—the serpent’s head, did not abandon the fallen human race; but by her eternal motherly care, the Ever-Pure Mother petitions her Son and our God for even the most desperate sinners.
For this reason the Mother of God is called ‘the Scourge of the demons’—there is no possibility of the devil ruining a man, provided that man does not cease seeking the aid of the Mother of God.”- St. Seraphim of Sarov

“It is later than you think! Hasten, therefore, to do the work of God.”- Blessed Seraphim Rose
 
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Offline LausTibiChriste

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Re: "Descended into paradise"‽ Hell = paradise for Protestants‽
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2018, 04:51:24 PM »
This looks like one 'pastor's' personal webpage with his own personal creed. I hardly think he speaks for Protestants. I'm sure I could find some priest somewhere who baptizes in the name of the Creator, Sustainer and Sanctifier if you gave me enough time.

5 minutes cruising parish websites from the west coast or Canada should do the trick
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Offline Gardener

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Re: "Descended into paradise"‽ Hell = paradise for Protestants‽
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2018, 05:08:15 PM »
Why do you get so worked up about these things?

Aquinas distinguishes several hells under the umbrella title of Hell: hell of the lost/damned, hell of the limbo of the fathers, hell of the limbo of children.

Of Christ's descent into Hell, he notes:

Quote
I answer that, A thing is said to be in a place in two ways. First of all, through its effect, and in this way Christ descended into each of the hells, but in different manner. For going down into the hell of the lost He wrought this effect, that by descending thither He put them to shame for their unbelief and wickedness: but to them who were detained in Purgatory He gave hope of attaining to glory: while upon the holy Fathers detained in hell solely on account of original sin, He shed the light of glory everlasting.

In another way a thing is said to be in a place through its essence: and in this way Christ's soul descended only into that part of hell wherein the just were detained. so that He visited them "in place," according to His soul, whom He visited "interiorly by grace," according to His Godhead. Accordingly, while remaining in one part of hell, He wrought this effect in a measure in every part of hell, just as while suffering in one part of the earth He delivered the whole world by His Passion.
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4052.htm#article2


In the Catena Aurea, Aquinas quotes Ambrose:
Quote
AMBROSE; A most remarkable example is here given of seeking after conversion, seeing that pardon is so speedily granted to the thief. The Lord quickly pardons, because the thief is quickly converted. And grace is more abundant than prayer; for the Lord ever gives more than He is asked for. The thief asked that He should remember him, but our Lord answers, Verily I say to you, This day shall you be with me in Paradise. To be with Christ is life, and where Christ is, there is His kingdom.
https://dhspriory.org/thomas/english/CALuke.htm#23

So I ask you, combining the essential location of Christ's soul during His descent, and Ambrose' statement: is it possible for the hell of the lost to be Paradise? No. Therefore, yes, Christ descended into Hell, but not the hell of the lost in a locational manner. And as Ambrose says, where Christ is, there is His kingdom.

However, he also covers why Abraham's Bosom was not and is not Paradise-proper: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5069.htm#article4

But insofar as your original objection (what I can see of it, due to security blocking certain things), they're no more wrong than those who would contend Christ's location as concerns essence was the hell of the damned.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe
 

Offline Geremia

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Re: "Descended into paradise"‽ Hell = paradise for Protestants‽
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2018, 11:39:24 PM »
Why do you get so worked up about these things?
Why do you defend heretics?

Offline Geremia

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Re: "Descended into paradise"‽ Hell = paradise for Protestants‽
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 11:40:01 PM »
I hardly think he speaks for Protestants.
Who does? They have no unity, no pope.

Offline Gardener

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Re: "Descended into paradise"‽ Hell = paradise for Protestants‽
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 11:41:04 PM »
Why do you get so worked up about these things?
Why do you defend heretics?

I don't. I counter vague things which are specifically taught against when one actually looks at them.

Now, would you like to clarify your understanding of Christ's descent into hell, and what that actually means, or are you content with reactionary frothing?
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe
 
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Offline Gardener

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Re: "Descended into paradise"‽ Hell = paradise for Protestants‽
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 11:53:15 AM »
I hardly think he speaks for Protestants.
Who does? They have no unity, no pope.

Which is exactly why one cannot speak for another. Which blows your title out of the water.

As a side note, I never understood all of the solas. X Alone means alone, not alone+another alone. Can we get these folks a dictionary?

Now at home, I can look at "Pastor" Mark's statement, where he specifically says: "These are my Core Statements of Faith."

Here's the Methodist take: http://www.umc.org/news-and-media/did-jesus-descend-into-hell-or-to-the-dead

Baptist: https://www.baptiststandard.com/news/faith-culture/did-jesus-descend-into-hell/

Some Anglicans discussion: http://forums.anglican.net/threads/he-descended-into-hell.1920/

By and large, those three generally agree with Aquinas' explanation.

None agree with the superficial understanding of "Pastor" Mark.



"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe