Author Topic: Traditional Catholics and secular culture  (Read 13251 times)

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #150 on: January 03, 2018, 05:47:33 PM »
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The Catholic Church is failing the world over
Also, you may not know it, but in Asia, Africa and other places where secular culture has not accepted the sexual revolution wholesale, the Church is not only standing still, but even actually growing, that's right, I said growing "In 1900, the whole of Africa had just a couple of million Catholics, but that number grew to 130 million by the end of the century, and today it approaches 200 million. If current trends continue, as they show every sign of doing, then by the 2040s there will be some 460 million African Catholics." http://catholicherald.co.uk/issues/september-9th-2016/catholicisms-incredible-growth-story/ the same is true in some countries in Asia and there's no reason this growth cannot be replicated also in the west; but only if Christians stop living like worldlings do. We compromise far too much, our Christian ancestors lived happy, holy, healthy lives in the Christian way. There's no reason for us to do otherwise.

Spare me. Hell no it's not "growing." Have you been to these Asian or African countries, and witnessed this "growth?"

My wife is an immigrant from one of the "most Catholic" countries in the world. Everything is Novus Ordo, the traditional Mass is rare (apart from a few SSPX chapels), and even "neo cons" are hard to find.
 
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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #151 on: January 03, 2018, 06:05:05 PM »
Quote
The Catholic Church is failing the world over
Also, you may not know it, but in Asia, Africa and other places where secular culture has not accepted the sexual revolution wholesale, the Church is not only standing still, but even actually growing, that's right, I said growing "In 1900, the whole of Africa had just a couple of million Catholics, but that number grew to 130 million by the end of the century, and today it approaches 200 million. If current trends continue, as they show every sign of doing, then by the 2040s there will be some 460 million African Catholics." http://catholicherald.co.uk/issues/september-9th-2016/catholicisms-incredible-growth-story/ the same is true in some countries in Asia and there's no reason this growth cannot be replicated also in the west; but only if Christians stop living like worldlings do. We compromise far too much, our Christian ancestors lived happy, holy, healthy lives in the Christian way. There's no reason for us to do otherwise.

Spare me. Hell no it's not "growing." Have you been to these Asian or African countries, and witnessed this "growth?"

My wife is an immigrant from one of the "most Catholic" countries in the world. Everything is Novus Ordo, the traditional Mass is rare (apart from a few SSPX chapels), and even "neo cons" are hard to find.

"The Third World is the real future of the Catholic Church" is a funnier meme than "Democrats are the real racists!", though...
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Offline Greg

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #152 on: January 03, 2018, 06:14:45 PM »
These men are the future of post-Comet Catholic male fashion.

http://www.smwa.org/hst/HST_017/HST_17_The_Warning.htm






But ....  at least we now can finally understand WHY the living will envy the dead.
 
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Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #153 on: January 03, 2018, 06:17:29 PM »
The results of Islam are absolutely shit.

Lots of homosexuality.  Oppressed women.  Rape.  Profound ignorance and plenty of inbreeding and retardation in societies ruled by fear and threats.  They invent nothing and produce nothing, other than oil, pure luck they happen to be sitting on it, which western engineers have to extract and refine.

Islam would shrink dramatically if the penalty for apostasy was not to be murdered.

Muslims can't even agree what they agree on with each other.  That's why they keep blowing each other up.  They have murdered far more of each other than western militaries have killed them over the past 20 years.

Afghan boys recruited for sodomy. This is in the heart of Taliban-land.

 

Offline Greg

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #154 on: January 03, 2018, 06:28:03 PM »
Glasshouses and stones comes to mind there Bonaventure.

The Catholic Church hardly has a great track record when it comes to rent boys, child rape and covering up some serious sexual abuse; including threatening and blackmailing the victims and their families.

How can we expect more from a bunch of ignorant mountain dwellers in the dry and dusty butt crack of central Asia when the people claiming the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven can't get child rape off their weekly todo list.
 

Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #155 on: January 03, 2018, 06:35:24 PM »
It's beneficial to my marriage to watch "The Crown" with my wife.  She enjoys it, I enjoy it.  It's one of a very few programs we like watching together.

How much pornography, sex scenes and nudity is acceptable for that benefit?
Figure it out for yourself. I'm in no mood to argue. Frankly I have better things to do. Good day.

Yet you are exactly the type of trad burnout that Greg is warning against. From FSSP to SSPX to Sede and now a schismatic.
 
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Offline Bonaventure

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #156 on: January 03, 2018, 06:40:33 PM »
Glasshouses and stones comes to mind there Bonaventure.

The Catholic Church hardly has a great track record when it comes to rent boys, child rape and covering up some serious sexual abuse; including threatening and blackmailing the victims and their families.

How can we expect more from a bunch of ignorant mountain dwellers in the dry and dusty butt crack of central Asia when the people claiming the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven can't get child rape off their weekly todo list.

Was just showing that contra Pon's claims for Islam.
 
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Offline nmoerbeek

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #157 on: January 03, 2018, 06:42:49 PM »
Pon,

"Results matter" means this.

I am not going to take advice about fatherhood or leading a family from a single man or a bad father.  I will take it from a father who raised 12 children and made them socially well adjusted, happily married people who can pay a mortgage and balance a checkbook.

I am not going to encourage my daughter to marry a man and who cannot provide for her, especially since she is going to have to have a bunch of children.  I don't want her back here.  I don't care how holy he pretends to be.  I want to see a work ethic not some tweed wearing fantasist.  Because families cost money to raise and my daughter is going to be pregnant and dealing with their children for the next 20 years so he's going to be the only breadwinner competing economically against two income households.

A priest or Bishop can say what he likes, but talk is cheap.  Show me fuller churches, a more active parish life, a flourishing youth group, inspiring sermons.  Then I will open my wallet and throw in my support.  I am very reticent to support Father X just because he is Father X and makes the right sounds.

I don't take medical advice from people on the internet.  Give me a double blind clinical trial and a panel of experts telling me the pill works and I will take it.  I am not going to entertain fad diets or other alternative medicine quackery.  If there are statistically significant results then show those to me.

The Catholic Church is failing the world over.  The Muslim religion has delivered nothing for 1000 years.

Delivering positive results today are medicine, technology, sensible Trads who possess good judgement, Russians, Hungarians, Trump etc.

I couldn't give a rats what a bunch of anonymous people say on an Internet forum.  Some of you are massive tossers with screwed up past lives or still living in your mum's basement.  Why should I care what you think about how to live a good Catholic life?

Or Bishop Williamson who for all his tough talk, when the resistance actually broke away and needed him to lead and unite them, decided to retire to the Kentish seaside.

"Results matter" essentially means. Piss or get off the pot.

I have had a lifetime of Trads proffering advice and criticism, telling people how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but who are very poor at supporting practical events to improve the lot of fellow Trads.  The priests are usually weak men who latch onto the carnival barkers and self-promoters and fail the large families who are going to be providing the next generation of parishioners.  Mum and Dad can't spend hours with the priest discussing modesty of dress or the rubrics of 62, because they are raising 11 children.

When do the Jansenist types ever arrange for a really fun day out where young people can socialise in a way that competes with what the secular world can offer?  They never do, because that would expose them to risk and criticism.  They criticise, condemn and complain, but they never construct.

A few pages on, but this is still a good post.  I want it to be seen again.

Really? I mean, really...

Unless you or someone else can substantially refute what he's saying, yeah.

There is a lot of truth in the substance of the post. 

I have seen it with my own eyes as well.  I just haven't really seen people who were wishy washy fair much better. Grant you I am referring to my own vision of what wishy washy is. Children are going to be tempted and some choose to go the right way and some the wrong. I also think real penitence and discipline motivated for Love of God also sees the importance of hiding it in conformity with various parts of the Gospel such as the Chapter 6 of St. Matthew.  I am not sure that perhaps people even are aware of those who are the real penitents in their midst, and thank God for it. 

However, one can be strict with oneself and be fun with others and especially children.  St. Philip Neri and St. John Bosco are great examples of that.  I am not so sure that these Jansenists are really Jansenists so much as being sour faced saints, that even St. Theresa of Avila prayed to be delivered from.  However, I also think we should not be too condemning, for many it is a phase that a good friendship can help shake them out of.  Its not even unique to just a wild laymen with a copy of the Ascent of Mt. Carmel, but to Priests and Religious as well. 

St. Bernard once wrote that if a monastery did not have a discontent, cranky, complaining, rude (and such like) monk in it they aught to go out and pay a laymen his weight in gold to play the part, for it is to the benefit of the community to learn to bear that person in patience and to love them.  I know Greg from previous posts over the years has indicated his own desire and even efforts to help people in the past, so this is not a criticism of anyone but just a reminder that these sour faced saints are truly unhappy and are in need of much patience and help.  Perhaps God puts them in our life for our benefit.
 
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Offline Greg

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #158 on: January 03, 2018, 06:58:16 PM »
Glasshouses and stones comes to mind there Bonaventure.

The Catholic Church hardly has a great track record when it comes to rent boys, child rape and covering up some serious sexual abuse; including threatening and blackmailing the victims and their families.

How can we expect more from a bunch of ignorant mountain dwellers in the dry and dusty butt crack of central Asia when the people claiming the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven can't get child rape off their weekly todo list.

Was just showing that contra Pon's claims for Islam.

What was Pon's claim for Islam?  I can't recall.

Islam is obviously utter shit because they haven't invented anything or had a fresh useful idea they could share with the rest of the world for 1000 years.  They are to global culture what Kim Kardashian is to particle physics.

At least the Nazis gave us space travel and VW Beetles.
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #159 on: January 03, 2018, 07:03:10 PM »
Figure it out for yourself. I'm in no mood to argue. Frankly I have better things to do. Good day.

Yet you are exactly the type of trad burnout that Greg is warning against. From FSSP to SSPX to Sede and now a schismatic.

Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 

Offline Greg

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #160 on: January 03, 2018, 07:06:21 PM »
That's not a kettle Jayne.

It's a post-op pot.
 

Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #161 on: January 03, 2018, 07:15:02 PM »
Was just showing that contra Pon's claims for Islam.

Sorry to return, but just for the record, I made no claim for Islam other than it was the second largest religion in the world in terms of numbers.  When Greg posted a litany of everything that is wrong with Islam, I assured him he would get no argument from me.  I think our misunderstanding was that I thought Greg would consider a religion successful if it managed to convince more than a billion people of its claims.  It seems to me that success in persuasion would be the only objective way to judge a missionary religion.  Obviously the results would only be considered good if one judged them by Islamic criteria, just as Greg judges everything by a Greg criteria.  "Trump delivers results."  Well, a liberal would say Obama delivered results. 

Greg corrected my misapprehension when he made a post saying what "results matter" means—a post in which he basically scorched his own religion, saying that a lot of his fellow traditional Catholics are "massive tossers with screwed up past lives or still living in your mum's basement" and that the clerics were "usually weak men who latch onto the carnival barkers and self-promoters and fail the large families who are going to be providing the next generation of parishioners."  It's fine if that's what he thinks, but he appears to believe that even traditional Catholicism itself delivers poor results, and that the only people in it worth a damn are the ones who are willing to see things as he does.  Which (again) is fine.  But I can see why he hopes for fireballs from on high.  He wants to watch all the non-Gregs running and screaming for their lives.  In Greg's view, God is a cosmic Greg.

« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 08:00:58 PM by Pon de Replay »
 
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Offline Greg

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #162 on: January 03, 2018, 07:35:15 PM »
The main reason is that I like seeing materialistic selfish idiots suffer.  Vengeance is the Lord's.  But I'm going to jolly well enjoy it.

I am pretty sure the billion aborted babies will be cheering too.  If someone murdered me in the womb I'd want to see them suffer.

 

Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #163 on: January 03, 2018, 07:43:27 PM »
Point taken.  But isn't it the sin of presumption to imagine that you yourself won't be on the receiving end of God's wrath, too?  I thought everyone was supposed to tremble on the Day of Judgment.
 
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Traditional Catholics and secular culture
« Reply #164 on: January 03, 2018, 07:57:50 PM »
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In Greg's view, God is a cosmic Greg.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Great line; I wish I had said it.
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