Author Topic: «How Marriage Became One of the Sacraments: … to the Council of Trent»  (Read 2966 times)

Offline Kephapaulos

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Re: «How Marriage Became One of the Sacraments: … to the Council of Trent»
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2017, 02:36:53 AM »
I think as Geremia pointed out, he is looking more at the historical facts that can be ascertained from the book, but I myself also found the title disconcerting. Our Lord established Holy Matrimony as a Sacrament of the New Law from the very foundation of His Church period.

Historical facts and theological implications do not exist in separate vacuums; to argue such would be outright Modernism and Geremia has lambasted clerics who argue such things (such as Cdl. Muller and his statements on the Resurrection; Pope Benedict XVI in the same). The author's title, brief, and response all claim the Church fabricated at least the Sacrament of Marriage as such around the time of Trent (for the purpose of control over people), and if I'm reading him strictly, the Church manufactured the 7 Sacraments in total at that time. This is different than an understanding of declaring something de fide. The author seems to be using the dogmatic declaration of something in the same sense that Protestant detractors do: to make something up rather than mere clarification of that which always existed in truth.

I don't buy the line of these are just opinions, as if an author can be a totally removed Spock/robotic giver of mere facts. He draws theological conclusions and sourced from theologians and secular records. If this was Fr. James Martin, S.J., Cdl. Muller, etc., Geremia would be flipping his lid.

Simply put, if his thesis is correct, we are all wasting our time on here.

Go back to your "learned this at 6" catechism:

Q. "What is a Sacrament"
A. "An outward sign instituted by Christ for the purpose of conferring grace."

Q. "When did public revelation cease?"
A. "Public revelation ceased at that death of the apostle John."


Now, do we still wish to just wave away a Modernist position and all its implications in the theological sphere because the guy has some letters behind his name and is on the faculty at a prestigious university? If so, then I'd at least like some consistency as applied to clerics. At least they have pretty little dresses and silk yarmulkas. A professor just has a cat hair laden tweed jacket and a messy desk. Where's the aesthetic titillation in that?

I wouldn't say that the historical and theological realms are in vacuums either, but it's just that the book might say some historical facts that the Catholic Church would have confirmed as well. I'm not comfortable though with the use of books that present ideas contrary to the faith since they are mixed with error even if they do get some things right. That's what got us into the current mess with Catholics wanting to look outside into sources of worldly philosophy that formed without the guidance of the Church.

Are they any better titles on the theology of Holy Matrimony that you can promote, Geremia?

I regret not buying an old Latin theology book on Matrimony several years ago. It would have been a gem to have and read one day. Maybe it was translated into English. I wish I knew the title now.

Offline Geremia

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Re: «How Marriage Became One of the Sacraments: … to the Council of Trent»
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2017, 01:15:16 PM »
titles on the theology of Holy Matrimony
I know of a few De Matrimonio treatises: St. Robert's in his De controversiis tome 3 (DjVu pp. 779ff.  or here) and Fr. Pesch's (PDF pp. 157ff.).

Ryan Grant of Mediatrix Press plans to translate all of De controversiis, so he'll get to the De matrimonio at some point.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 09:44:47 AM by Geremia »