Author Topic: Rosary in Latin-Credo question  (Read 3995 times)

Offline Lynne

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Re: Rosary in Latin-Credo question
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2017, 03:28:39 PM »
Why pray in Latin?

Patrimony, palpable extension to the past (pre-Reformation) in a manner which is exactly the same as ALL our ancestors (well, those of us with a European lineage) would have prayed at least at times, a sanctified manner of prayer (that is, set aside for a special purpose), to grow in greater admiration of the truth that "[26] Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity. For we know not what we should pray for as we ought; but the Spirit himself asketh for us with unspeakable groanings." [Rom] -- in other words, sometimes it helps to pray in a manner which  forces concentration on the prayer rather than our own thoughts; it helps to remember that our prayers do not depend on us in some sense.

It's the same reason "Messianic Christians" and Jews pray in Hebrew (not even using it day to day in the 1st century, it having been replaced by Aramaic), Orthodox pray in Greek, and Muslims pray in Arabic. There's something about an original language going back to the early days of a religion -- even if, in this case, it was the language of the empire it overthrew through patience. To use a Hebrew example, there's simply something mysterious about saying, "Shema, Israel, Adonai Eloheinu..." "Hear, Israel The Lord is Our God" just doesn't have the same je ne sais quoi. There's something really cool about hearing the Our Father in Aramaic because it's highly likely that would have been the language in which Christ gave it to the Apostles rather than Hebrew:


It has a poetic element to it. Rhythmic and rhyming -- similar to the Arabic poetry I've heard. You simply don't get that in the received English translation, and in many ways not in the Latin (but you do get it in the prayers originally written in Latin).

Latin is the language of the Church, but instruction in Latin is far from universal.  Most children do not learn it in school.  I don't think there was ever a time in history where learning Latin was available to everyone.  There might be some traditional catholic parishes here and there that offer it to their parishioners but I'd consider that the exception and not the rule.  While it might be part of our patrimony, you have to seek it out if you want to learn it and it isn't usually taught as part of a catechism program, from what seen

It was routinely taught in Catholic high schools, dropped from the curriculum 30 - 40 years ago and is being added back...
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline aquinas138

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Re: Rosary in Latin-Credo question
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2017, 10:58:26 PM »


I'm curious how close this would have been to the original; nailing down Christ's dialect isn't as easy as some think. I'm used to the Syriac versions, but it's fairly similar and quite intelligible, but obviously without certain Syriac peculiarities, e.g., they say yitqadesh instead of Syriac netqadash. I'm curious about why they omit the doxology; it is in the Peshitta and in universal use among Syriac Christians. I wonder if this is a back-translation from Greek?
O unashamed intercessor of Christians, ever loyal advocate before the Creator, do not disregard the prayerful voice of sinners but in your goodness hasten to assist us who trustfully cry out to you: Intercede always, O Mother of God, in behalf of those who honor you!
 

Offline Gardener

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Re: Rosary in Latin-Credo question
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2017, 11:20:20 PM »
Unsure. As far as pronunciation, that's true, but certainly closer than say, "Our Father..." :)
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 
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Offline Jon Paul

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Re: Rosary in Latin-Credo question
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2017, 10:04:44 AM »
When is a Rosary officially complete? [...] Among these, which are necessary to confect a legitimate Rosary?

The rosary begins with the first of 15 Our Fathers, and ends with the 150th Hail Mary.  A decade of the rosary consists of 1 Our Father and 10 Hail Marys whilst meditating upon one of the 15 mysteries in the lives of Jesus and Mary.

Everything else is window dressing.  The Glory be, the Creed, the Salve, the Holy Michael prayer, etc., are all pious customs and traditions that grew up through the centuries.
 
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Offline Jon Paul

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Re: Rosary in Latin-Credo question
« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2017, 10:16:18 AM »
IF the homeschoolers are studying Latin and mastering it, that's one thing.  If, however, the extent of Latin goes to rote memorization, then I argue that's not how you should be 'doing' personal or private prayer.  Prayer time is not 'reinforce study time', prayer time is not 'buffer your skills' time, it's time to pray and commune with Our Lord.

But there are different types of prayer.  There's vocal prayer and mental prayer, and vocal prayer itself has different levels of attention attached to it.  Whether you say "Requiem aeternam dona eis.." or "Eternal rest grant unto them..." having a general idea of what you're praying for is efficacious and salutary.  The vernacular version can only assist with a deeper subjective relating to the words and meaning, but a simple comparison of the two versions would be sufficient to know what you're praying for.  Whereas the use of the Latin form would add the further benefit of using words hallowed by centuries upon centuries of usage.

There's an added benefit to the Latin as well which is that there's no real fixed standards even within given nations with vernacular prayers.  The Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be, the Credo, the Hail Holy Queen, and Bless us, O Lord, are generally consistent.  But how many translations of the Memorare, the Holy Michael Archangel prayer, the Regina Caeli, the Eternal rest, and the Psalms themselves exist?  I can't say the Holy Michael Archangel prayer in any American parish because its in a translation which is so jarringly different from the one I learned.  Even praying "may the souls of the faithful departed..." is slightly different for myself and what my in-laws pray.  The use of a standardized Latin, one standardized over centuries of usage, is a great aid.  And these prayers are all simple enough to understand what they mean from an understanding of the vernacular.

Just don't try to do your Spiritual Exercises of Saint Ignatius in Latin if you're not fluent!
 
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