Author Topic: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread  (Read 15939 times)

Offline Gardener

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #105 on: September 12, 2018, 06:00:30 PM »
Nine months old....  sigh...
The review just came out and as you know this topic is still relevant since two members of this forum have continued to badmouth these priests. I don't understand how that is okay? Did you watch this video?

I don't recall ever specifically badmouthing Fr. Ward et al.

Rather Heinrich and I have said the chapel has problems.

If you want to associate a chapel with a specific priest, you've entered into the cult of personality sphere and that's exactly why there are issues there.
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Offline St.Justin

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #106 on: September 12, 2018, 06:07:38 PM »
 "Sheridan�s letter, sent last month, sidesteps accusations by former members who say Servants of the Holy Family is dysfunctional and perhaps a cult.

Former members say priests berate church members from the pulpit and demand unquestioned loyalty, that families have been torn apart over the church, and that many members refuse � or are unable � to talk with parents, children or siblings who have left the church."

There is much more here: http://www.religionnewsblog.com/9382/rogue-parish-not-roman-catholic

 

Offline Philip G.

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #107 on: September 12, 2018, 08:17:16 PM »
I have listened to many sermons from servi, and they are usually all very good.  I do find it concerning that they do not publicize who ordains their priests.  Because, the word is that dubious bishop/conman Ambrose Moran was able to get his foot in the door at servi and administer I think the tonsure/minor orders on one occasion.  That is a reflection of poor judgment by Fr. Ward. 

Also, and more interesting, is that I heard that Fr. Ward has a written letter of approval from Pope Paul VI approving of his operation.  Fr. Ward petitioned the pope prior to or concurrent with the formation of his monastery for approval, and received it.  And, the word is that he received approval to say the old rite and use old liturgical calendar.  If this is true, this is very interesting.  Because, Fr. Ward's operation is a hybrid operation.  It is half monastic like a benedictine and half ministerial if I am correct.  They really seem like canons if you ask me.  Anyway, what is interesting, is that if his operation were categorized as monastic, that would make him an abbot of sorts.  And, an abbot of sorts with the popes approval has if I am not mistaken a type of jurisdiction.  And, if I am not mistaken, that type of jurisdiction is not dependent on the local ordinaries, being approved by the pope himself.  And, traditionally speaking, I think it is immune from non papal infringement.  My guess is that it would require an explicit reversal by a future pope in order to rescind the approval Fr. Ward apparently received from Paul VI.  And, I doubt that has occurred. 

Don't attack me for stating such.  But, the word really is that he has an approval by Paul VI.  That is all I know.  However, if he got lucky and ordered his operation in such a way favorable for the argument I present above, that is worth noting.  I have heard that high-ups in the novus ordo are familiar and friendly with him, and have supported and encouraged him a private capacity. 

Aside from that, I do not think I have ever donated to them, and I have never attended their church.  I find it very believable that there may be small issues at their church.  But, if I were to go out on a limb, I would say that I am not afraid to step through their doors.   

« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 08:19:24 PM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline St.Justin

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #108 on: September 12, 2018, 08:57:42 PM »
Did you read the link????????? If he had approval from any Pope then the local Bishop can't deny him faculties which he has.
 
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Offline Philip G.

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #109 on: September 12, 2018, 09:23:42 PM »
Did you read the link????????? If he had approval from any Pope then the local Bishop can't deny him faculties which he has.

You need to calm down.
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 
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Offline St.Justin

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #110 on: September 12, 2018, 09:41:51 PM »
Did you read the link????????? If he had approval from any Pope then the local Bishop can't deny him faculties which he has.

You need to calm down.

What??? These people sound like the Dimond bros.
 

Offline Elizabeth

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #111 on: September 12, 2018, 11:25:23 PM »
I am fascinated in seeing an almost all black TLM congregation. I wish we had more of that.

Why?

Not enough blacks who attend the traditional sacraments. When blacks do have a Church, its like Obama's priest Pfluger in Chicago.
Monsignor Pope's parish in DC is almost all African American.  He has some very interesting scrapbooks etc. detailing the rich history of black Catholics in DC in a waiting room at Holy Comforter.  One thing is, they do Gospel services there, or used to.  (very compelling, difficult to separate the emotions form the Holy Ghost.)  Not sure if Msgr. Pope offers TLM at Holy Comforter, or only at Old St. Mary's.
 
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Offline Philip G.

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #112 on: September 12, 2018, 11:31:46 PM »
StJustin - No trad bashing.  Servi is not at all comparable to MHFM. 

The obvious thing from the +Sheridan letter is that Fr. Ward acted "without any approval or consent of any ordinary".  Does that clearly enough include the pope, if Fr. Ward did in fact receive his approval(not an established fact)?  Dumb question, is the pope categorized as an "ordinary"?  Another thing, I do not know how canon law has changed, but there is potential that the new law changes affect Fr. Ward's long shot argument.  I repeat, long shot.  Don't shoot the messenger.  I am just telling you what my research has revealed.  I don't know anything about bishop sheridan, but I will not at all be surprised if he is a poor NO bishop who abuses the rules to further modernism.  Also, for comparison, have you never heard of the hawaii six?  https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/remember-hawaii-six-case-3112

« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 11:33:36 PM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Offline Elizabeth

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #113 on: September 12, 2018, 11:55:05 PM »

Now that is just downright insulting, you cantankerous rattlesnake.
Dear Heinrich, 
  ;D
brilliant comeback

 
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Offline St.Justin

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #114 on: September 13, 2018, 11:28:04 AM »
StJustin - No trad bashing.  Servi is not at all comparable to MHFM. 

The obvious thing from the +Sheridan letter is that Fr. Ward acted "without any approval or consent of any ordinary".  Does that clearly enough include the pope, if Fr. Ward did in fact receive his approval(not an established fact)?  Dumb question, is the pope categorized as an "ordinary"?  Another thing, I do not know how canon law has changed, but there is potential that the new law changes affect Fr. Ward's long shot argument.  I repeat, long shot.  Don't shoot the messenger.  I am just telling you what my research has revealed.  I don't know anything about bishop sheridan, but I will not at all be surprised if he is a poor NO bishop who abuses the rules to further modernism.  Also, for comparison, have you never heard of the hawaii six?  https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/remember-hawaii-six-case-3112

Let's just say, like most people on this forum I have been in this battle for a long time. I knew about the Hawaii six when it was happening and researched this quite awhile back. Like most people you will believe what you want to believe.  One other thing since the Pope is the Bishop of Rome he is an ordinary but with Supreme Ordinary Jurisdiction.
 

Offline queen.saints

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #115 on: September 13, 2018, 11:50:08 AM »
Take it for what it's worth: http://www.religionnewsblog.com/9382/rogue-parish-not-roman-catholic

A great response to this article of false information about good priests was recently brought to my attention. I knew you would want to know the truth:



This kind of stuff just brings me so much joy:

Like, somebody actually verifying statements.
 
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Offline St.Justin

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #116 on: September 13, 2018, 11:55:07 AM »
The followers of the Dimond brothers "feel" the same way.
 

Offline Philip G.

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #117 on: September 13, 2018, 12:15:16 PM »
stjustin - it seems that you do not believe that the church is in unprecedented and confusing times.  With that said, how can you tolerate this forums policy regarding sedevacatism?  Servi aren't even sedevacantist.  I am not a sedevacantist, nor am I a Fr. Ward partisan.  But, for you to compare these priests to MHFM is ridiculous.  There are likely complaints against ecclesia dei communities similar to those against servi.  And, we all know there are complaints against the sspx that are similar.  It is easy for an enemy to level an accusation.  But, why exactly does that carry such weight with you? 





 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 
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Offline Philip G.

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #118 on: September 13, 2018, 12:24:41 PM »
That video review was useful but in many respects amateur.  The argument that because Fr. Ward was granted faculties by the diocese of fribourg from his sspx days is not very strong.  It is mainly not strong because Fr. Ward left the sspx.  The early sspx(the nine) argue that the structure of back then is misrepresented now, that argument is useless if it is not backed up by clear and official documentation.  And, I have never seen that.  Yes, the nine won the court case, but that was a result of USA church state separation bias. 

I have personally gotten to the point in my life where I am fed up with the lack of transparency, even in tradition.   Personality cult is ordered.   And, ecclesiastically speaking, the papacy comes first in that regard.  As much as I like the old holy week, the liturgy is only a means to and end.  Fr. Ward is not on my dream team/in my fantasy league.  But, if he prays for Francis in the una cum, it is clear to me that I have got bigger fish to fry. 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 12:26:30 PM by Philip G. »
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 

Online Lynne

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Re: The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread
« Reply #119 on: September 13, 2018, 12:53:30 PM »
Are people confusing/conflating the nine priests who sued the SSPX with the Hawaii Six who were laity who went to an SSPX chapel in Hawaii? They were excommunicated by their bishop but Cardinal Ratzinger instructed the United State's Apostolic Nuncio, Archbishop Agostino Cacciavillan, to inform the Bishop of Honolulu, Joseph Ferrario, that his decree of excommunication against the six Catholics was invalid.
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
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