Author Topic: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"  (Read 18102 times)

Offline LouisIX

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2016, 06:18:11 PM »
Thanks, Jacob!
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Online Lynne

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2016, 06:22:09 PM »
Darn!!! This sounds like a really good book, Mark D. Popowski’s The Rise and Fall of Triumph: The History of a Radical Roman Catholic Magazine.

The hardcover is $80 and the Kindle version is $76!!!!!

Nice ripoff.

A friend of mine let me borrow his copy. It's an excellent book, but it's not worth 80 bucks.

Nothing's worth $80 except many yards of fabric! :-)

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In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
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Online Lynne

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2016, 06:24:35 PM »
Thanks, Jacob!

Yes, more info would be great!

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In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Jacob

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2016, 06:45:05 PM »
Well, unless you have specific questions, there's not much to say.

The story of the magazine is the story of Bozell and his associates (Wilhelmson and the others).  Bozell was a conservative (ghostwrote Goldwater's book Conscience of a Conservative) who broke with his National Review fellows and went off to found Triumph.

The Wikipedia article looks to be correct and unbiased.  Start there.  That ought to answer most questions on Bozell's political transformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_%28magazine%29

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Offline Prayerful

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2016, 08:25:27 PM »
Conservatism and the Right often seems to be mainly about enriching wealthy commercial or industrial interests with social issues largely as distractions only weakly pursued. Abortion and homosexuality fall into that pretend conservtive distraction category. Some political leaders have tried to run a supportive attitude to industry in harness with social conservatism. Tony Abbot probably was an example, but can mean a fatally divided attention. It can mean political defeat, like for Abbot, or that the legislative effort is just empheral and vanishes with the next change of government. Big money conservatism is stonger in the West now thanks to the complete cultural victory of the Frankfurt school. This conservatism annexes social liberalism, and regards genuine social conservatives in their ranks as somewhere between annoyances or amusing oddities.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
 
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Offline mikemac

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2016, 12:23:00 AM »
Well, unless you have specific questions, there's not much to say.

The story of the magazine is the story of Bozell and his associates (Wilhelmson and the others).  Bozell was a conservative (ghostwrote Goldwater's book Conscience of a Conservative) who broke with his National Review fellows and went off to found Triumph.

The Wikipedia article looks to be correct and unbiased.  Start there.  That ought to answer most questions on Bozell's political transformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_%28magazine%29

I see Triumph had quite the list of contributors, including Solange Hertz, Dietrich von Hildebrand and Marcel Lefebvre.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2016, 01:31:10 AM »
My family (parents) used to get Triumph magazine when I was growing up.  I remember liking it... unfortunately I don't remember more.  Also unfortunately, we didn't keep them.

A lot of help I am!

Hmm, maybe I can help one person:  (as I write this) there is 1 copy of the book for $44.91 on abebooks:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=The+Rise+and+fall+of+triumph+the+history
« Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 01:39:11 AM by Non Nobis »
[Matthew 8:26]  And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm.

[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 

Offline Jacob

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2016, 10:05:14 AM »
It is interesting that someone hasn't scanned in all the issues of the magazine by now.  It certainly is influential enough in certain circles.  The interest is out there.
“Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time.”
--Neal Stephenson
 

Online Lynne

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2016, 11:51:39 AM »
It is interesting that someone hasn't scanned in all the issues of the magazine by now.  It certainly is influential enough in certain circles.  The interest is out there.

copyright issues?
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2016, 02:43:26 PM »
Who would sue on behalf of a dead publication?

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Online Lynne

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2016, 02:50:55 PM »
Who would sue on behalf of a dead publication?

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Bozell's relatives? The publisher? It's still in copyright. I believe something is still in copyright 78 (or even 100) years after the death of the author/owner.
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2016, 02:57:40 PM »
Meh.   

It's not like theyre selling back issues, or making the content available in other formats (the two aforementioned books notwithstanding).

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Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.
 

Online Lynne

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2016, 03:01:16 PM »
Meh.   

It's not like theyre selling back issues, or making the content available in other formats (the two aforementioned books notwithstanding).

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Yes but I'm sure someone would complain if someone tried to make some money of the publication. It's a shame because I'm sure a decent number of people would be interested in it but thank Disney!

They're the ones who pushed to get copyrights extended. Have to protect Mickey Mouse (and its $$$), you know...  ::)
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2016, 03:05:49 PM »
Oh, sure, make money, that's a different thing.  I assumed they'd be scanned to archive.org. 

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Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.
 

Offline LouisIX

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Re: Political Traditionalism and Its Adversary, "Conservatism"
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2016, 03:56:26 PM »
Conservatism and the Right often seems to be mainly about enriching wealthy commercial or industrial interests with social issues largely as distractions only weakly pursued. Abortion and homosexuality fall into that pretend conservtive distraction category. Some political leaders have tried to run a supportive attitude to industry in harness with social conservatism. Tony Abbot probably was an example, but can mean a fatally divided attention. It can mean political defeat, like for Abbot, or that the legislative effort is just empheral and vanishes with the next change of government. Big money conservatism is stonger in the West now thanks to the complete cultural victory of the Frankfurt school. This conservatism annexes social liberalism, and regards genuine social conservatives in their ranks as somewhere between annoyances or amusing oddities.

Likewise, it regards traditionalists as socialists or Marxists since they do not employ "The government is inherently evil" as their major premise for every argument.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 
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