Author Topic: Attending Novus ordo under parental order  (Read 10196 times)

Offline ialsop

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Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« on: July 10, 2015, 05:33:14 PM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX
The devil has always attempted, by means of the heretics, to deprive
the world of the Mass, making them precursors of the Anti-Christ, who,
before
anything else, will try to abolish and will actually abolish the Holy
Sacrament of the altar, as a punishment for the sins of men, according to
the
prediction of Daniel "And strength was given him against the continual
sacrifice" (Daniel 8:12D).  --St. Alphonsus Liguori, Doctor of the Church

One single Mass gives more honor to God than all the penances of the
Saints, the labors of the Apostles, the sufferings of the martyrs, and even
the burning love of the Blessed Mother of God.  --St. Alphonsus Liguori
 

Offline Elliott

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 05:45:16 PM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX
If you're a minor you would have to go or you would be violating the 4th commandment. You shouldn't participate though because it isn't a Catholic Mass. You shouldn't make a show about not participating. If it were me I'd pray the rosary or read from my missal.
 

Offline ialsop

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 05:49:03 PM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX
If you're a minor you would have to go or you would be violating the 4th commandment. You shouldn't participate though because it isn't a Catholic Mass. You shouldn't make a show about not participating. If it were me I'd pray the rosary or read from my missal.

A question about that, can a lay person pray the priest's prayers for that day(the secret, the introit, ect.), if he or she has no Mass to attend? Obviously I can read the readings, and I can NOT say the unchanging Mass, any of it, but what about the changing prayers? They seem like they would be good prayers for the day to pray, but I dont know if that is allowed.
The devil has always attempted, by means of the heretics, to deprive
the world of the Mass, making them precursors of the Anti-Christ, who,
before
anything else, will try to abolish and will actually abolish the Holy
Sacrament of the altar, as a punishment for the sins of men, according to
the
prediction of Daniel "And strength was given him against the continual
sacrifice" (Daniel 8:12D).  --St. Alphonsus Liguori, Doctor of the Church

One single Mass gives more honor to God than all the penances of the
Saints, the labors of the Apostles, the sufferings of the martyrs, and even
the burning love of the Blessed Mother of God.  --St. Alphonsus Liguori
 

Offline Gardener

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 07:33:29 PM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX
If you're a minor you would have to go or you would be violating the 4th commandment. You shouldn't participate though because it isn't a Catholic Mass. You shouldn't make a show about not participating. If it were me I'd pray the rosary or read from my missal.

A parent can command a child to violate the 3rd Commandment? Please explain.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 
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Offline Daniel

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 07:36:04 PM »
If you're a minor you would have to go or you would be violating the 4th commandment.
If this particular act of disobedience would be sinful for minors, then wouldn't it be sinful even if you're not a minor?  As far as I know, parents have natural authority over their children until death.

edit - Nevermind, I don't think I thought that through...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 07:41:03 PM by Daniel »
 

Offline Gardener

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 07:42:02 PM »
If you're a minor you would have to go or you would be violating the 4th commandment.
If this particular act of disobedience would be sinful for minors, then wouldn't it be sinful even if you're not a minor?  As far as I know, parents have natural authority over their children until death.

If, as Elliot claimed, the NO is not a Catholic Mass, there is no obligation to obey the parents in attending it -- the opposite in fact. My mother had a fit when I converted at 27; a parent CANNOT withhold a child, no matter the age, from doing what is right.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 
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Offline Elliott

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 08:21:35 PM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX

If you're a minor you would have to go or you would be violating the 4th commandment. You shouldn't participate though because it isn't a Catholic Mass. You shouldn't make a show about not participating. If it were me I'd pray the rosary or read from my missal.

A parent can command a child to violate the 3rd Commandment? Please explain.
How is sitting in a Catholic church praying while not participating in the blasphemy of the others a violation of the 3rd commandment? He didn't say he was forbidden from going to a Catholic Mass on Sunday.
 

Offline Francisco Suárez

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2015, 02:02:19 AM »
You shouldn't participate though because it isn't a Catholic Mass. You shouldn't make a show about not participating.
(my emphasis)

Seeing as a Pope promulgated that Mass, and given that liturgical discipline and Divine Worship fall under the disciplinary infalliblity of the Catholic Church, how can you possibly claim that the Mass is not Catholic, and imply that it is morally illicit to participate?
 

Offline Gardener

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2015, 02:16:28 AM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX

If you're a minor you would have to go or you would be violating the 4th commandment. You shouldn't participate though because it isn't a Catholic Mass. You shouldn't make a show about not participating. If it were me I'd pray the rosary or read from my missal.

A parent can command a child to violate the 3rd Commandment? Please explain.
How is sitting in a Catholic church praying while not participating in the blasphemy of the others a violation of the 3rd commandment? He didn't say he was forbidden from going to a Catholic Mass on Sunday.

If it is not Catholic, he shouldn't be there. If it is not Catholic, it is objectively evil in that it is a mockery of liturgy and does not offer God His due Worship.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.
 

Offline PatienceAndLove

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2015, 04:41:44 AM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX

Since it's a valid Mass, you should attend and be thankful that your parents love you enough to take you to Mass every Sunday. You receive graces from being there, and should revel in them- be thankful that you are loved and blessed enough to be there to receive them.
Give the priest your undying attention during the Liturgy of the Eucharist because that is Christ up there.
We are called, even in the EF, to participate in the Holy Sacrifice. How are you assisting in the Mass by praying the Rosary or having your nose stuck in your Missal? I'm assuming this would be your EF missal, and not the missal for the OF.
Take yourself out of yourself for a moment, and look at you from your parents' eyes. What good are you doing them by showing them, through ignoring the Mass that they have taken you to, for your love of Christ and His Bride, the Church? You aren't doing any good, and are, in fact, violating a commandment.

Don't fall into the habit of being your own pope.
Love your parents, pray for them, and the Church, everyday.
And thank God that they love you enough to take you to Mass every Sunday, and that you are lucky enough to receive Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist without trials, arguments, or fear.
You can only come to the morning through the shadows -JRR Tolkien
The burned hand teaches best - JRR Tolkien
 
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Offline Elliott

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2015, 09:22:30 AM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX

If you're a minor you would have to go or you would be violating the 4th commandment. You shouldn't participate though because it isn't a Catholic Mass. You shouldn't make a show about not participating. If it were me I'd pray the rosary or read from my missal.

A parent can command a child to violate the 3rd Commandment? Please explain.
How is sitting in a Catholic church praying while not participating in the blasphemy of the others a violation of the 3rd commandment? He didn't say he was forbidden from going to a Catholic Mass on Sunday.

If it is not Catholic, he shouldn't be there. If it is not Catholic, it is objectively evil in that it is a mockery of liturgy and does not offer God His due Worship.
I think there is a difference between being present in the church during the sacrilegious mass and participation in it. Would you not go to a NO funeral?
 

Offline Elliott

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2015, 09:29:06 AM »
You shouldn't participate though because it isn't a Catholic Mass. You shouldn't make a show about not participating.
(my emphasis)

Seeing as a Pope promulgated that Mass, and given that liturgical discipline and Divine Worship fall under the disciplinary infalliblity of the Catholic Church, how can you possibly claim that the Mass is not Catholic, and imply that it is morally illicit to participate?
I'm sure this has been dealt with elsewhere here. I don't care to get into it, that's why I stick to traditional forums. The new mass is the mass of the new religion, if you're content with the new religion why bother with traditionalism?
 

Offline ialsop

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2015, 11:03:32 AM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX

Since it's a valid Mass, you should attend and be thankful that your parents love you enough to take you to Mass every Sunday. You receive graces from being there, and should revel in them- be thankful that you are loved and blessed enough to be there to receive them.
Give the priest your undying attention during the Liturgy of the Eucharist because that is Christ up there.
We are called, even in the EF, to participate in the Holy Sacrifice. How are you assisting in the Mass by praying the Rosary or having your nose stuck in your Missal? I'm assuming this would be your EF missal, and not the missal for the OF.
Take yourself out of yourself for a moment, and look at you from your parents' eyes. What good are you doing them by showing them, through ignoring the Mass that they have taken you to, for your love of Christ and His Bride, the Church? You aren't doing any good, and are, in fact, violating a commandment.

Don't fall into the habit of being your own pope.
Love your parents, pray for them, and the Church, everyday.
And thank God that they love you enough to take you to Mass every Sunday, and that you are lucky enough to receive Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist without trials, arguments, or fear.
Thanks for the excellent answer!! :)
PAX
The devil has always attempted, by means of the heretics, to deprive
the world of the Mass, making them precursors of the Anti-Christ, who,
before
anything else, will try to abolish and will actually abolish the Holy
Sacrament of the altar, as a punishment for the sins of men, according to
the
prediction of Daniel "And strength was given him against the continual
sacrifice" (Daniel 8:12D).  --St. Alphonsus Liguori, Doctor of the Church

One single Mass gives more honor to God than all the penances of the
Saints, the labors of the Apostles, the sufferings of the martyrs, and even
the burning love of the Blessed Mother of God.  --St. Alphonsus Liguori
 

Offline Rube

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2015, 12:43:19 PM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.
So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?
Thanks!
PAX
Since it's a valid Mass, you should attend and be thankful that your parents love you enough to take you to Mass every Sunday. You receive graces from being there, and should revel in them- be thankful that you are loved and blessed enough to be there to receive them.
Give the priest your undying attention during the Liturgy of the Eucharist because that is Christ up there.
We are called, even in the EF, to participate in the Holy Sacrifice. How are you assisting in the Mass by praying the Rosary or having your nose stuck in your Missal? I'm assuming this would be your EF missal, and not the missal for the OF.
Take yourself out of yourself for a moment, and look at you from your parents' eyes. What good are you doing them by showing them, through ignoring the Mass that they have taken you to, for your love of Christ and His Bride, the Church? You aren't doing any good, and are, in fact, violating a commandment.
Don't fall into the habit of being your own pope.
Love your parents, pray for them, and the Church, everyday.
And thank God that they love you enough to take you to Mass every Sunday, and that you are lucky enough to receive Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist without trials, arguments, or fear.

Don't be your own pope, but that doesn't exclude the fact that a pope can become a heretic and automatically cease being pope.

St. Bernard believed the final Antichrist would be a false pope in order to be predicted to be so successful in fooling the majority of clergy and laity into apostasy. The Scriptures predict the Catholic with the true faith will be very few.

I can see it now.....all those following the Antichrist pope at that time would easily be throwing out such deceptive arguments as "don't be your own pope....come with us."



Offline Arun

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Re: Attending Novus ordo under parental order
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2015, 07:38:59 PM »
I have heard that if your parents require you to attend the Novus Ordo, you should, out of obedience. Even sedevacantists have told me this.

So, do you agree? And how should one go about that? Would you not participate at all? Or actively use traditional devotions? Or participate reverently?

Thanks!
PAX

Since it's a valid Mass, you should attend and be thankful that your parents love you enough to take you to Mass every Sunday. You receive graces from being there, and should revel in them- be thankful that you are loved and blessed enough to be there to receive them.
Give the priest your undying attention during the Liturgy of the Eucharist because that is Christ up there.
We are called, even in the EF, to participate in the Holy Sacrifice. How are you assisting in the Mass by praying the Rosary or having your nose stuck in your Missal? I'm assuming this would be your EF missal, and not the missal for the OF.
Take yourself out of yourself for a moment, and look at you from your parents' eyes. What good are you doing them by showing them, through ignoring the Mass that they have taken you to, for your love of Christ and His Bride, the Church? You aren't doing any good, and are, in fact, violating a commandment.

Don't fall into the habit of being your own pope.
Love your parents, pray for them, and the Church, everyday.
And thank God that they love you enough to take you to Mass every Sunday, and that you are lucky enough to receive Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist without trials, arguments, or fear.

this, while seemingly well meaning, is actually pretty bad advice.

your best option is indeed probably to pray the Rosary during attendance if you cannot avoid attending. pray it in Latin if you can, or learn - it won't take long. you'll be able to fit in at least 15 decades and a few extra prayers, when attending weddings/funerals i've normally selected the extra prayers to fit the occasion but in your case some prayers for the reversion of that parish to Tradition would probably be a good measure. maybe the St Michael's Prayer (the full one) as well.

PatienceandLove, were you aware the faithful are even encouraged to pray the Rosary during the True Mass? it's one, but not the only, devotion one can perform; uniting the mysteries with the Sacrifice. many people do it.



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