Author Topic: Is evolution sin?  (Read 10842 times)

Offline Arun

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2015, 08:09:52 PM »
Evolution is absolutely a sin: so, if you grow an extra digit or something you damn well better shove that thing back in there before anybody notices or your toast, son.


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Offline Baldrick

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2015, 08:13:38 PM »
Evolution is absolutely a sin: so, if you grow an extra digit or something you damn well better shove that thing back in there before anybody notices or your toast, son.

If I ever become toast I would have probably evolved in a most favorable direction. 
 

Offline Arun

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2015, 08:17:13 PM »
Evolution is absolutely a sin: so, if you grow an extra digit or something you damn well better shove that thing back in there before anybody notices or your toast, son.

If I ever become toast I would have probably evolved in a most favorable direction.

only if you can find somebody who evolved into butter and somebody else who evolved into marmite...


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Offline Rube

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2015, 09:35:39 PM »
Okay, last two posts....don't tell me you had no alcohol in your blood when you posted them.


Offline james03

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2015, 10:16:52 PM »
Quote
I don't believe an accelerometer measures constant velocity?
A rotating object is always under acceleration and does not have constant velocity (by vectors).  The tip speed is constant, but the velocity vector is continuously changing direction, i.e. acceleration.  An accelerometer would register this.

Simple example, when you go around a curve in your car, the speedometer registers no change, but you will feel the direction change.

Velocity is meaningless without a benchmark.  It is always relative.

Acceleration is absolute.  The benchmark is the object itself.
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Offline Arun

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2015, 10:22:24 PM »
Okay, last two posts....don't tell me you had no alcohol in your blood when you posted them.

i actually literally didn't bro.


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Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #36 on: July 02, 2015, 02:32:09 PM »
Eliminate the rest of the universe.  Have two objects connected by a string and strain gage.  If there is a strain on the gage, the objects are rotating.  If there is no strain, the objects are not rotating.

For a one object system, put an accelerometer on the surface.  If it measures acceleration, then the object is spinning.  If not, then it is not rotating.

Appears absolute to me.

Except that when you eliminate the rest of the universe your thought experiments won't play out the way you think, because your objects all of a sudden have zero rotational inertia.  Newton's laws are dependent on the rest of the universe being there (because of course they were formulated and experimentally verified with the rest of the universe there).  "Mass there = inertia here".
 

Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #37 on: July 02, 2015, 02:35:49 PM »
Quote
I don't believe an accelerometer measures constant velocity?
A rotating object is always under acceleration and does not have constant velocity (by vectors).  The tip speed is constant, but the velocity vector is continuously changing direction, i.e. acceleration.  An accelerometer would register this.

But changing direction relative to what?


Quote
Acceleration is absolute.  The benchmark is the object itself.

No, it isn't.  There is no measurable difference at all between us being stationary on earth, experiencing the g-acceleration due to the earth's gravity (9.8 m/s2) , and us being on a spaceship with no gravitational field but accelerating at 9.8 m/s2.  In fact this is how artificial gravity works.

 

Offline james03

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2015, 05:14:56 PM »
Quote
  Newton's laws are dependent on the rest of the universe being there (because of course they were formulated and experimentally verified with the rest of the universe there).
No they are not.  The strain gage would show the tension on the connecting wire between the objects.  Are you claiming that it wouldn't?

Quote
But changing direction relative to what?
  To itself.  More precisely in the opposite direction from the application of force.

Quote
No, it isn't.  There is no measurable difference at all between us being stationary on earth, experiencing the g-acceleration due to the earth's gravity (9.8 m/s2) , and us being on a spaceship with no gravitational field but accelerating at 9.8 m/s2.
  But there is a difference for every other value.  You arbitrarily pick an acceleration force that matches the force of gravity.

My point stands.  Acceleration is absolute.  The benchmark is the object itself.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."
 

Offline Suzanne Romano

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #39 on: July 02, 2015, 05:33:07 PM »
I think it is a sin of heresy and blasphemy and even a sin against reason.
 

Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #40 on: July 02, 2015, 10:49:34 PM »
I think it is a sin of heresy and blasphemy and even a sin against reason.

Yeah well, your opinion plus $1 will get you a cup of coffee.  The Church thinks otherwise.
 

Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #41 on: July 02, 2015, 11:00:41 PM »
Quote
  Newton's laws are dependent on the rest of the universe being there (because of course they were formulated and experimentally verified with the rest of the universe there).
No they are not.  The strain gage would show the tension on the connecting wire between the objects.  Are you claiming that it wouldn't?

Yes they are and yes I am claiming no tension and nothing measured on the strain gauge.

You are assuming inertia is still present when you take the rest of the universe away.  That's what I'm denying.  You are assuming inertia - something will continue to move in the same direction - and therefore a force is needed to get it to rotate.

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But changing direction relative to what?
Quote
  To itself.  More precisely in the opposite direction from the application of force.

Relative to itself, velocity of an object is always zero.

Quote
   But there is a difference for every other value.  You arbitrarily pick an acceleration force that matches the force of gravity.

So what?  General Relativity says that there is no difference between being in a g-field and accelerating in a spaceship with the same acceleration.

Quote
My point stands.  Acceleration is absolute.  The benchmark is the object itself.

But it's not.  In a universe with only one object, it has no inertia.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 11:02:19 PM by Quaremerepulisti »
 

Offline james03

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2015, 11:12:22 AM »
Quote
Yes they are and yes I am claiming no tension and nothing measured on the strain gauge.

You are assuming inertia is still present when you take the rest of the universe away.  That's what I'm denying.  You are assuming inertia - something will continue to move in the same direction - and therefore a force is needed to get it to rotate.

You have a non-falsifiable theory, therefore you have no theory at all.  The rest of the universe does not provide inertia.  You would have to show how that works, and provide a falsifiable explanation.

Quote
Relative to itself, velocity of an object is always zero.
Not angular velocity, which is really acceleration.  But you can state it as RPMs also.
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Offline james03

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2015, 12:59:23 PM »
So you create an experiment sans the rest of the universe.  Two orbs connected via two rods connected  at the center of gravity to a strain gage.  On each orb is a small rocket.  You fire the rockets.

Are you arguing that the strain gage will not move?  If so, where did the energy go?  You just violated the conservation of energy.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."
 

Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Is evolution sin?
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2015, 11:56:32 PM »
You have a non-falsifiable theory, therefore you have no theory at all. 

So do you, I might add. 

But it is falsifiable in theory (take away the rest of the universe), even if it is not falsifiable in practice (because we can't do that).

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The rest of the universe does not provide inertia.  You would have to show how that works, and provide a falsifiable explanation.

Mach's principle.

And that rotating mass can result in centrifugal and Coriolis forces at the center of the shell has been experimentally proven (Lense-Thirring effect).

Quote
Not angular velocity, which is really acceleration.  But you can state it as RPMs also.

Again, there is no difference between being stationary and experiencing a g-force due to gravitational pull, and rotating around (say, in a satellite with artificial gravity).