Author Topic: The Church after modernism  (Read 206 times)

Offline Tennessean

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The Church after modernism
« on: January 18, 2021, 03:54:06 PM »
Seems to me modernists in the diocese don't have the demographics to make it into the later century. They don't have as many kids as traditionalists, they don't give like traditionalists, many are apostatizing or turning to tradition. So when the old guard of modernism die out, and the diocese turn traditional, what do you think will be made of the modernist century? How will the Church cope with what happened? Assuming Christ doesn't set things straight himself, do you think that there will be a Vatican 3, to decide whether the modern popes were popes at all? Could a council who throw them out say something like, "the faithfulness of the laity to the Church was evidence when no popes were found?"
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: The Church after modernism
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2021, 03:15:29 AM »
Seems to me modernists in the diocese don't have the demographics to make it into the later century. They don't have as many kids as traditionalists, they don't give like traditionalists, many are apostatizing or turning to tradition. So when the old guard of modernism die out, and the diocese turn traditional, what do you think will be made of the modernist century? How will the Church cope with what happened? Assuming Christ doesn't set things straight himself, do you think that there will be a Vatican 3, to decide whether the modern popes were popes at all? Could a council who throw them out say something like, "the faithfulness of the laity to the Church was evidence when no popes were found?"

If Christ does not come before then, which some of us believe is less likely than that He will  come, then I think Church historians will regard this time period as a pathetic fruit of the times, which itself invited in V2.  I think this period will be regarded as one of the weakest, if not the weakest, period in Church history. That does not necessarily mean (just in my opinion) that six or more popes will be declared false, but that they will be regarded as weak fruits of this weak age, which means being guided by emotion, whim, softness in intellectual discipline, and a resistance to leadership. An effeminate age in more ways than one, lacking in fortitude, temperance, and prudence -- an indulgent age as well as weak and effeminate. (All variations on the same theme.)

In the past I have not been super-enthusiastic about a Vatican 3, but if the Church is to go forward under a unified set of beliefs, it might be necessary. I think a reason I have resisted the idea is that if a council offers opportunity for argument about Vatican 2, then it's useless because it could end up being an attempt to "salvage," "justify," and explain away the serious errors to save face.  Therefore, I still prefer a papal decree about it instead: first reinstating the Index and then putting Vatican 2 on it.  An Oath Against Vatican 2 (just as some apostolates now make an Oath against Modernism before their ordination) would be required by Catholics as part of baptismal vows, to be repeated at Confirmation, that they will never henceforth access Vatican 2 documents, even if they did previously.
 

Offline Tennessean

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Re: The Church after modernism
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2021, 10:14:49 AM »
An Oath Against Vatican 2 (just as some apostolates now make an Oath against Modernism before their ordination) would be required by Catholics as part of baptismal vows, to be repeated at Confirmation, that they will never henceforth access Vatican 2 documents, even if they did previously.
I like this better than the council too.

I wonder if an argument might be made (or has already been made) from demographics. Could some evidence of modernism's falsehood also be it destroys itself? The lay don't have kids, the priests and religious dry up, people leave in droves, there's no money, no belief... Christ doesn't teach spiritual suicide. The last modernist bishops will simply die out or must come home to tradition of necessity.