Author Topic: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta  (Read 5359 times)

Offline Gottmitunsalex

  • "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people." ---Pope St. Pius X
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2143
  • Thanked: 19 times
  • Magister Generalis - Hochmeister
    • My position.
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
"Nothing is more miserable than those people who never failed to attack their own salvation. When there was need to observe the Law, they trampled it under foot. Now that the Law has ceased to bind, they obstinately strive to observe it. What could be more pitiable that those who provoke God not only by transgressing the Law but also by keeping it? But at any rate the Jews say that they, too, adore God. God forbid that I say that. No Jew adores God! Who say so? The Son of God say so. For he said: "If you were to know my Father, you would also know me. But you neither know me nor do you know my Father". Could I produce a witness more trustworthy than the Son of God?"  St. John Chrysostom  Sunday Homily

"The two goals of the Jews: The universal domination of the world and the destruction of Catholicism, out of hatred for Christ" --Mgr. Jouin
 

Offline Francisco Suárez

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 398
  • Thanked: 39 times
  • Religion: Christian
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 11:52:11 AM »
Wasn't this censured by the Holy Office?
 

Offline Archer

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5580
  • Thanked: 423 times
  • Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, fast is lethal.
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 12:20:19 PM »
Yes.  It was placed on the Index of Forbidden Books in 1959.  I believe it would be much more beneficial to medetate on the scriptures; something we as Catholics don't do enough of anyway.     

"All the good works in the world are not equal to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass because they are the works of men; but the Mass is the work of God. Martyrdom is nothing in comparison for it is but the sacrifice of man to God; but the Mass is the sacrifice of God for man." - St. John Vianney
 

Offline Archer

  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5580
  • Thanked: 423 times
  • Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, fast is lethal.
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 12:24:26 PM »
Despite coming from EWTN, I believe this article accurately and fairly captures where "The Poem" came from, what it is, and the Church's objections to it.  In his conclusion he includes sensible recommendations to Catholics who insist on reading it anyway. 

http://www.ewtn.com/library/scriptur/valtorta.txt
Quote
IS "THE POEM OF THE MAN-GOD" SIMPLY A BAD NOVEL?
 
Maria Valtorta's multi-volume life of Jesus flirts with heresy and exhibits bad taste. Its claim to authenticity have been rejected by Rome.
 
by Father Mitch Pacwa, S.J.
 
"The Poem of the Man-God" is a five-volume "narrative" of the life of Jesus written in the 1940s by a sickly Italian woman named Maria Valtorta. "Poem" purports to fill in the details of Jesus' life left blank by the four Gospels. Such narratives have been produced since the second century A.D. Some were written by gnostic heretics. Some by New Agers and occultists. And some were produced by pious Christians who made up stories about Jesus to edify their readers and listeners.
 
The four Gospels do not give a biography of Jesus--or of anyone else in His life. Their purpose is evangelical and theological--to proclaim the Good News that human beings need for their salvation. Thus, for centuries, the "hidden life" of Jesus has been the subject for speculation.
 
"The Poem of the Man-God" is in this tradition of apocryphal literature on New Testament themes. Valtorta claimed that she was the "secretary" of Jesus and Mary, and was setting down the divinely inspired truth about Jesus' life. The Church has rejected this claim. Nevertheless, "Poem" has become quite popular, particularly among Catholics as well.
 
Remarkably, the book has grown in popularity in part because its champions claim that high Church officials--including one Pope--endorsed it. They haven't. In fact, "Poem" was included on the Index of Forbidden books until the abolition of the Index in the 1960s. No less an authority than Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, reiterates the Church's rejection of the claims made for "The Poem of the Man-God."
 
How did "The Poem of the Man-God" come to be, and how has the notion become widely accepted that it contains important religious truth?
 
Maria Valtorta, author of "Poem," was born in 1897 into a sadly dysfunctional family, where she suffered emotional abuse at the hands of a despotic mother. When she was 23, she was attacked and beaten by a mugger. She was never completely well after that.  From 1933 on, she was unable to leave her bed.
 
Maria began to receive "dictations" on Good Friday, 1943. In 1947, she handed over 10,000 handwritten pages to her spiritual director, Father Romuald Migliorini, O.S.M.  Father Migliorini typed them and Father Corrado Berti, O.S.M. bound them. Fr. Berti, brought them to Father later Cardinal Augustin Bea, S.J., spiritual director to Pope Pius XII.
 
Did Pope Pius read the whole manuscript or parts? If only part, which part?  Advertisements by the Canadian Central distributors for Valtorta (CEDIVAL) quote Father Bea: "I have read in typed manuscripts many of the books written by Maria Valtorta . . . As far as exegesis is concerned, I did not find any errors in the parts which I examined." Notice, he read only parts of the books. Which were they?
 
On Feb. 26, 1948, Fathers Migliorini, Berti and A. Cecchin enjoyed a private audience with Pope Pius XII, as listed in L'Osservatore Romano's daily announcement of audiences. Standing in St. Peter's Square after the audience, Father Berti wrote down Pope Pius' words as he remembered them. These words were "not" printed in L'Osservatore Romano, but Father Berti remembered the Pope saying:
 
"Publish this work as it is. There is no need to give an opinion about its origin, whether it be extraordinary or not. Who reads it, will understand. One hears of many visions and revelations. I will not say they are all authentic; but there are some of which it could be said that they are."
 
CEDIVAL calls this a "Supreme Pontifical Imprimatur," where "he took upon himself to pass the first official judgment on these writings." CEDIVAL glues this inside the cover, though the publisher does not print an imprimatur. The reason: it has none!
 
Confident of papal approval, Father Berti brought the books to the Vatican press.  However, in 1949, two commissioners of the Holy Office, Msgr. Giovanni Pepe and Father Berruti, O.P., condemned the "Poem," ordering Berti to hand over every copy and sign an agreement not to publish it. Father Berti returned the manuscripts to Valtorta and handed over only his typed versions.
 
Despite his signed promise, in 1952 Father Berti went to publisher Emiliano Pisani.  Though aware of the Holy Office's opposition, Pisani printed the first volume in 1956, and a new volume each year through 1959.
 
When volume four appeared, the Holy Office examined the "Poem" and condemned it, recommending that it be placed on the Index of Forbidden Books Dec. 16, 1959. Pope John XXIII signed the decree and ordered it published. L'Osservatore Romano, on Jan.  6, 1960, printed the condemnation with an accompanying front-page article, "A Badly Fictionalized Life of Jesus," to explain it.
 
The article complained that the "Poem" broke Canon Law. "Though they treat exclusively of religious issues, these volumes do not have an "imprimatur," which is required by Canon 1385, sect. 1, n. 2."
 
Second, the long speeches of Jesus and Mary starkly contrast with the evangelists, who portray Jesus as "humble, reserved; His discourses are lean, incisive." Valtorta's fictionalized history makes Jesus sound "like a chatterbox, always ready to proclaim Himself the Messiah and the Son of God," or teach theology in modern terms. The Blessed Mother speaks like a "propagandist" for modern Marian theology.
 
Third, "some passages are rather risque," like the "immodest" dance before Pilate (vol.  5, p. 73). There are "many historical, geographical and other blunders." For instance, Jesus uses screwdrivers (Vol. 1, pp. 195, 223), centuries before screws existed.
 
There are theological errors, as when "Jesus says" (vol. 1, p. 30) that Eve's temptation consisted in arousing her flesh, as the serpent sensuously "caressed" her. While she "began the sin by herself," she "accomplished it with her companion." Sun Myung Moon and Maria Valtorta may claim the first sin was sexual, but Scripture does not.
 
Vol. 1, p. 7, oddly claims, "Mary can be called the 'second-born' of the Father . . ." Her explanation limits the meaning, avoiding evidence of an authentic heresy; but it does not take away the basic impression that she wants to construct a new mariology, which simply goes beyond the limits of propriety." "Another strange and imprecise statement" made of Mary (vol. 4, p. 240) is that she will "be second to Peter with regard to ecclesiastical hierarchy. . . " Our Lady surpasses St. Peter's holiness, but she is not in the hierarchy, let alone second to St. Peter.
 
Further, Valtorta did not claim to write a novel, but called herself a "secretary" of Jesus and Mary, so, "in all parts on reads the words 'Jesus says. . .' or 'Mary says . . .'" The Church takes this claim to revelation very seriously, since it has the God-given duty to discern what is or is not truly from the Holy Spirit. In Valtorta's case, the Church decided against Divine inspiration.
 
Finally, "Poem" is condemned for reasons of disobedience. Competent Church authority had prohibited the printing of Valtorta's work.

 
Pope John's approval of the condemnation of the "Poem of the Man-God" should have ended the issue, but it did not. The publishers printed a second edition of 10 volumes, which the Church condemned in another front-page article in L'Osservatore Romano, Dec. 1, 1961. This second Italian edition was later translated into German, French, Spanish and English.
 
CEDIVAL asserts that a "modernist clan in the Church" . . . "surreptitiously attempted to seize the manuscripts and destroy them," claiming "firsthand documentation on this." These "enemies" included Msgr. Pepe and Father Berruti, the Holy Office censors.
 
I asked the head of CEDIVAL, Prof. Leo Brodeur, for evidence that Msgr. Pepe and Father Berruti held any modernist heresies, but he had none. He assumed they were modernists because the "Poem" claims "to help the Church fight against the terrible heresy of modernism." If the "Poem's enemies are modernists, Msgr. Pepe and Father Berruti must be modernists, too.
 
Such assertions are unacceptable. Accusations of modernism or any other heresy without proof is slander.
 
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, present head of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (formerly the same office that condemned the "Poem"), informed Cardinal Siri in 1985 of the "Poem's condemnation:
 
After the dissolution of the Index, when some people thought the printing and distribution of the work was permitted, they were reminded again in L'Osservatore Romano (June 15, 1966) that "The Index retains its moral force despite its dissolution."
 
More recently (April 17, 1993, Prot. N. 144/58i), he wrote: "The 'visions' and 'dictations' referred to in the work, "The Poem of the Man-God," are simply the literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus.  They cannot be considered supernatural in origin."
 
The best that can be said for "The Poem of the Man-God" is that it is a bad novel. This was summed up in the L'Osservatore Romano headline, which called the book "A Badly Fictionalized Life of Jesus."
 
At worst, "Poem's" impact is more serious. Though many people claim that "Poem" helps their faith or their return to reading Scripture, they are still being disobedient to the Church's decisions regarding the reading of "Poem." How can such disregard for Church authority and wisdom be a help in renewing the Church in these difficult times?

When Catholics insist on reading "Poem," despite Church condemnation, I make these requests: First, read three hours of Scripture for every one hour spent in the "Poem." The Church guarantees that the Bible is God's Word, inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Church has judged the "Poem" to be a poorly done human work. Second, read solid Catholic theology books in addition to Scripture. G.K. Chesterton, Frank Sheed, Archbishop Sheen's "Life of Christ" and many other works are excellent starts. Third, maintain a strong prayer life, drawing closer to Christ Jesus, Our Lord, at Mass and at eucharistic adoration, and to our Blessed Mother Mary, especially in the Rosary.
 
If sheep insist on bad pasturage, at least let them take antidotes.
 
This article appeared in February 1994 edition of "New Covenant" (Emphasis Mine)
"All the good works in the world are not equal to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass because they are the works of men; but the Mass is the work of God. Martyrdom is nothing in comparison for it is but the sacrifice of man to God; but the Mass is the sacrifice of God for man." - St. John Vianney
 

Offline Francisco Suárez

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 398
  • Thanked: 39 times
  • Religion: Christian
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 12:24:53 PM »
Yes.  It was placed on the Index of Forbidden Books in 1959.  I believe it would be much more beneficial to medetate on the scriptures; something we as Catholics don't do enough of anyway.   

Well said, that quote from St. Jerome(?) comes to mind:

Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.
 

Offline tmw89

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2783
  • Thanked: 13 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2013, 05:51:15 PM »
Quote from: Bishop Williamson, "Eleison Comments" Issue CCLXXV - 275 (English) - 20 October 2012
HOME READING
When a while back these “Comments” advised readers to fortify their homes in case public bastions of the Faith might, due to the wickedness of the times, prove to be a thing of the past, a few readers wrote in to ask just how homes might be fortified. In fact various spiritual and material means of defending home and family have been suggested in previous numbers of the “Comments”, notably of course the Holy Rosary, but one fortification has gone unmentioned which I think I would try in place of television if I had a family to defend: reading aloud each night to the children selected chapters from Maria Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God. And when we had reached the end of the five volumes in English, I imagine us starting again from the beginning, and so on, until all the children had left home !

Yet the Poem has many and eloquent enemies. It consists of episodes from the lives of Our Lord and Our Lady, from her immaculate conception through to her assumption into Heaven, as seen in visions received, believably from Heaven, during the Second World War in northern Italy by Maria Valtorta, an unmarried woman of mature age lying in a sick-bed, permanently crippled from an injury to her back inflicted several years earlier. Notes included in the Italian edition (running to over four thousand pages in ten volumes) show how afraid she was of being deceived by the Devil, and many people are not in fact convinced that the Poem truly came from God. Let us look at three main objections.

Firstly, the Poem was put on the Church’s Index of forbidden books in the 1950’s, which was before Rome went neo-modernist in the 1960’s. The reason given for the condemnation was the romanticizing and sentimentalizing of the Gospel events. Secondly the Poem is accused of countless doctrinal errors. Thirdly Archbishop Lefebvre objected to the Poem that its giving so many physical details of Our Lord’s daily life makes him too material, and brings us too far down from the spiritual level of the four Gospels.

But firstly, how could the modernists have taken over Rome in the 1960’s, as they did, had they not already been well established within Rome in the 1950’s ? The Poem, like the Gospels (e.g. Jn.XI, 35, etc.), is full of sentiment but always proportional to its object. The Poem is for any sane judge, in my opinion, neither sentimental nor romanticized. Secondly, the seeming doctrinal errors are not difficult to explain, one by one, as is done by a competent theologian in the notes to be found in the Italian edition of the Poem. And thirdly, with all due respect to Archbishop Lefebvre, I would argue that modern man needs the material detail for him to believe again in the reality of the Gospels. Has not too much “spirituality” kicked Our Lord upstairs, so to speak, while cinema and television have taken over modern man’s sense of reality on the ground floor ? As Our Lord was true man and true God, so the Poem is at every moment both fully spiritual and fully material.

From non-electronic reading of the Poem in the home, I can imagine many benefits, besides the real live contact between parents reading and children listening. Children soak in from their surroundings like sponges soak in water. From the reading of chapters of the Poem selected according to the children’s age, I can imagine almost no end to how much they could learn about Our Lord and Our Lady. And the questions they would ask ! And the answers that the parents would have to come up with ! I do believe the Poem could greatly fortify a home.

Kyrie eleison.

http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=202.0
Quote from: Bishop Williamson
The "promise to respect" as Church law the New Code of Canon Law is to respect a number of supposed laws directly contrary to Church doctrine.

---

http://tradblogs.blogspot.com

NOW OPEN:  A new Trad forum featuring Catholic books, information, and discussion!
 

Offline Gottmitunsalex

  • "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people." ---Pope St. Pius X
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2143
  • Thanked: 19 times
  • Magister Generalis - Hochmeister
    • My position.
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2013, 05:54:40 PM »
Quote from: Bishop Williamson, "Eleison Comments" Issue CCLXXV - 275 (English) - 20 October 2012
HOME READING
When a while back these “Comments” advised readers to fortify their homes in case public bastions of the Faith might, due to the wickedness of the times, prove to be a thing of the past, a few readers wrote in to ask just how homes might be fortified. In fact various spiritual and material means of defending home and family have been suggested in previous numbers of the “Comments”, notably of course the Holy Rosary, but one fortification has gone unmentioned which I think I would try in place of television if I had a family to defend: reading aloud each night to the children selected chapters from Maria Valtorta’s Poem of the Man-God. And when we had reached the end of the five volumes in English, I imagine us starting again from the beginning, and so on, until all the children had left home !

Yet the Poem has many and eloquent enemies. It consists of episodes from the lives of Our Lord and Our Lady, from her immaculate conception through to her assumption into Heaven, as seen in visions received, believably from Heaven, during the Second World War in northern Italy by Maria Valtorta, an unmarried woman of mature age lying in a sick-bed, permanently crippled from an injury to her back inflicted several years earlier. Notes included in the Italian edition (running to over four thousand pages in ten volumes) show how afraid she was of being deceived by the Devil, and many people are not in fact convinced that the Poem truly came from God. Let us look at three main objections.

Firstly, the Poem was put on the Church’s Index of forbidden books in the 1950’s, which was before Rome went neo-modernist in the 1960’s. The reason given for the condemnation was the romanticizing and sentimentalizing of the Gospel events. Secondly the Poem is accused of countless doctrinal errors. Thirdly Archbishop Lefebvre objected to the Poem that its giving so many physical details of Our Lord’s daily life makes him too material, and brings us too far down from the spiritual level of the four Gospels.

But firstly, how could the modernists have taken over Rome in the 1960’s, as they did, had they not already been well established within Rome in the 1950’s ? The Poem, like the Gospels (e.g. Jn.XI, 35, etc.), is full of sentiment but always proportional to its object. The Poem is for any sane judge, in my opinion, neither sentimental nor romanticized. Secondly, the seeming doctrinal errors are not difficult to explain, one by one, as is done by a competent theologian in the notes to be found in the Italian edition of the Poem. And thirdly, with all due respect to Archbishop Lefebvre, I would argue that modern man needs the material detail for him to believe again in the reality of the Gospels. Has not too much “spirituality” kicked Our Lord upstairs, so to speak, while cinema and television have taken over modern man’s sense of reality on the ground floor ? As Our Lord was true man and true God, so the Poem is at every moment both fully spiritual and fully material.

From non-electronic reading of the Poem in the home, I can imagine many benefits, besides the real live contact between parents reading and children listening. Children soak in from their surroundings like sponges soak in water. From the reading of chapters of the Poem selected according to the children’s age, I can imagine almost no end to how much they could learn about Our Lord and Our Lady. And the questions they would ask ! And the answers that the parents would have to come up with ! I do believe the Poem could greatly fortify a home.

Kyrie eleison.

http://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=202.0
Well quoted TMW!
Because of his Lordship, I found out about Maria Valtorta.
In the NO Seminary, it was Verboten.


"Nothing is more miserable than those people who never failed to attack their own salvation. When there was need to observe the Law, they trampled it under foot. Now that the Law has ceased to bind, they obstinately strive to observe it. What could be more pitiable that those who provoke God not only by transgressing the Law but also by keeping it? But at any rate the Jews say that they, too, adore God. God forbid that I say that. No Jew adores God! Who say so? The Son of God say so. For he said: "If you were to know my Father, you would also know me. But you neither know me nor do you know my Father". Could I produce a witness more trustworthy than the Son of God?"  St. John Chrysostom  Sunday Homily

"The two goals of the Jews: The universal domination of the world and the destruction of Catholicism, out of hatred for Christ" --Mgr. Jouin
 

Offline Heinrich

  • Steig mal auf den Berg hinauf
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 7351
  • Thanked: 2603 times
  • Roter Fleisch, der Speck und Bourbon
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2013, 06:04:08 PM »
It is promoted here: http://drbo.org/

Included is a recommendation from Pope Pius XII.

How could it also be forbidden?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline Gottmitunsalex

  • "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people." ---Pope St. Pius X
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2143
  • Thanked: 19 times
  • Magister Generalis - Hochmeister
    • My position.
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2013, 06:06:24 PM »
It is promoted here: http://drbo.org/

Included is a recommendation from Pope Pius XII.

How could it also be forbidden?
Evidently the new CDF  (formerly the Holy Office), and Pope John XXIII declared the book Verboten. nuff said.
"Nothing is more miserable than those people who never failed to attack their own salvation. When there was need to observe the Law, they trampled it under foot. Now that the Law has ceased to bind, they obstinately strive to observe it. What could be more pitiable that those who provoke God not only by transgressing the Law but also by keeping it? But at any rate the Jews say that they, too, adore God. God forbid that I say that. No Jew adores God! Who say so? The Son of God say so. For he said: "If you were to know my Father, you would also know me. But you neither know me nor do you know my Father". Could I produce a witness more trustworthy than the Son of God?"  St. John Chrysostom  Sunday Homily

"The two goals of the Jews: The universal domination of the world and the destruction of Catholicism, out of hatred for Christ" --Mgr. Jouin
 

Offline Heinrich

  • Steig mal auf den Berg hinauf
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 7351
  • Thanked: 2603 times
  • Roter Fleisch, der Speck und Bourbon
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2013, 06:31:17 PM »
It is promoted here: http://drbo.org/

Included is a recommendation from Pope Pius XII.

How could it also be forbidden?
Evidently the new CDF  (formerly the Holy Office), and Pope John XXIII declared the book Verboten. nuff said.

That is what I thought. No further explanation needed.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.
 

Offline LongfellowDeeds

  • Cage-fights with Kaesekopf Regularly
  • Hellebardier
  • *
  • Posts: 72
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2013, 05:02:50 PM »
It is promoted here: http://drbo.org/

Included is a recommendation from Pope Pius XII.

How could it also be forbidden?
Evidently the new CDF  (formerly the Holy Office), and Pope John XXIII declared the book Verboten. nuff said.

That is what I thought. No further explanation needed.

 Really?
 
" . . . in February 1948 the future Cardinal Augustin Bea, S.J. who was then the confessor to Pope Pius XII, bypassed the Holy Office by facilitating a private audience for them and their Prior, Father Andrea Checchin, with the Pope."

One of the Council Fathers responsible for Nostra Aetate BYPASSED the traditional structure for the review of Catholic literature to get it approved. (To be fair, however, Cardinal Gagnon stated that this audience with the Pope was an official imprimatur from the Supreme Teaching Authority of the Church.

Bishop Williamson says that the modernists were already well established in Rome in the 1950s. Okay, so is there a cut-off date when the modernists weren't 'well-established' in Rome, when we can agree to trust the listings of the Index Prohibitorum? The 1940s? The 1930s? When?

Bishop Williamson is promoting this against the opinions of both ABL and the Vatican.  Both of these facts should give one pause.

As for Pope Pius XII's recommendation, he also says in his 'recommendation' - "There is no need to give an opinion about its origin, whether it is extraordinary or not."

He leaves open the possibility that it might not be of supernatural origin. Isn't this the least bit suspicious?

Whatever the nature of the book, (and there's no doubting many have said the book is of great benefit) I hardly think it is an open and shut case to say that since John XXIII declared the book 'verboten' (and one can't help but love the connotation of the word choice here), and we don't like John XXIII, but we do like Bishop Williamson, we should have absolutely no qualms about reading it.
I believe in the Resurrection of the Thread.

"The USCCB needs more Cojones and less Mahoneys."
-- C. Austermann

“Vice is a monster of so frightful mien. As to be hated needs but to be seen; Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face, We first endure, then pity, then embrace.” -- Alexander Pope

"A woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all." -- Samuel Johnson

"Who am I to budge?" -- Future Better Pope
 
The following users thanked this post: Blue Violet

Offline Francisco Suárez

  • Korporal
  • **
  • Posts: 398
  • Thanked: 39 times
  • Religion: Christian
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2013, 07:27:32 PM »
Not to mention the fact that it was Cardinal Ottaviani who pushed for the book's censure.
 

Offline Lateran

  • Vizekorporal
  • **
  • Posts: 142
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • Gone Fishing
  • Religion: Catholic; cranky not crunchy
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2013, 08:46:08 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poem_of_the_Man_God

says:

The first copy of the book was presented to Pope Pius XII, and the three Servite priests who attended the 1948 papal audience stated that he gave his verbal approval to "publish this work as is".[1][3][4] However, the Holy Office did not follow through with the publication and about a year after the 1958 death of Pius XII, placed the book on the Index of Forbidden Books.[3] The Forbidden Index was formally abolished by the Vatican in 1965.[6][7]
The last Vatican statement on the book was by Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi in 1993, writing a letter to the publisher that the book can be published as is, provided a statement is made near the front that it does not have supernatural origin.[8] The book has also received an imprimatur and the approval of a number of Catholic bishops.[9][10][1]

 

Offline Gottmitunsalex

  • "As the head of the Church, I cannot answer you otherwise: The Jews have not recognized Our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people." ---Pope St. Pius X
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2143
  • Thanked: 19 times
  • Magister Generalis - Hochmeister
    • My position.
  • Religion: römisch-katholisch
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 12:31:00 AM »
Not to mention the fact that it was Cardinal Ottaviani who pushed for the book's censure.
Based on some opinions in this thread about the book, he probably did the right thing.
 
"Nothing is more miserable than those people who never failed to attack their own salvation. When there was need to observe the Law, they trampled it under foot. Now that the Law has ceased to bind, they obstinately strive to observe it. What could be more pitiable that those who provoke God not only by transgressing the Law but also by keeping it? But at any rate the Jews say that they, too, adore God. God forbid that I say that. No Jew adores God! Who say so? The Son of God say so. For he said: "If you were to know my Father, you would also know me. But you neither know me nor do you know my Father". Could I produce a witness more trustworthy than the Son of God?"  St. John Chrysostom  Sunday Homily

"The two goals of the Jews: The universal domination of the world and the destruction of Catholicism, out of hatred for Christ" --Mgr. Jouin
 

Offline Kaesekopf

  • Enkindle in us the virtues of humility and patience So we too may obediently do your will faithfully.
  • Oberst
  • Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 20517
  • Thanked: 6167 times
    • Suscipe Domine
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: The Poem Of The Man-God by Maria Valtorta
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 12:35:18 AM »
What is the hype around this?

I've never understood it.
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.
 
The following users thanked this post: Blue Violet