Author Topic: What are you currently reading?  (Read 216617 times)

Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #45 on: March 20, 2013, 03:35:18 PM »
I've just finished reading Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

How did you like it, Vetus?  Kundera has a calm and brooding resignation about things; I'm sure he read his E.M. Cioran with relish.  It gets very philosophical and even animal-rights-tinged towards the end.  Have you seen the movie?  And is Lena Olin one of the most beautiful actresses ever to grace the silver screen?
 

Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #46 on: March 20, 2013, 03:42:22 PM »
Quote
I'd have to recommend it very cautiously on this forum, though, as his attitudes are very pessimistic in regards to capitalism and industrialism, which I imagine most people here are in favor of.
Really? I loathe both and would have thought any traditionalist Catholic would - Rerum Novarum comes to mind.

Good point.

I wonder, though, whether or not you live in the United States, where (at least in my experience) traditional Catholicism is typically bound up very firmly with either the politics of the Republican party or with economic libertarianism.  On this forum, in particular, a rejection of industrialized (and secular) society is frequently ridiculed as "Amish," or made out to be the province of frumpy-looking Little House on the Prairieists.
 

Offline PatrickG

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #47 on: March 20, 2013, 04:59:40 PM »
Quote
I'd have to recommend it very cautiously on this forum, though, as his attitudes are very pessimistic in regards to capitalism and industrialism, which I imagine most people here are in favor of.
Really? I loathe both and would have thought any traditionalist Catholic would - Rerum Novarum comes to mind.

Good point.

I wonder, though, whether or not you live in the United States, where (at least in my experience) traditional Catholicism is typically bound up very firmly with either the politics of the Republican party or with economic libertarianism.  On this forum, in particular, a rejection of industrialized (and secular) society is frequently ridiculed as "Amish," or made out to be the province of frumpy-looking Little House on the Prairieists.
No - I'm English. I don't know a great deal about present politics (I treat Westminster with complete disgust, while I don't trust and won't read any newspaper) outside a very local level, relating to farming and country life.

Is there a particular party associated with traditional Catholicism in this country? We have no 'Action Francaise' nor even any party, like the Republicans, who are manifestly better than the alternative. I am a distributist of sorts, perhaps a High Tory* (in Canada a Red Tory), I refuse to vote, but I expect most traditionalists voted Tory and will now vote UKIP. To my mind, much good may it do them! I will spoil my ballot at the next election - each one of the parties is as much a band of brigands as the rest.

As for industrialism, I see it as something every party supports (along with abortion, fornication, Modernism, mass immigration - the list goes on) - Labour, the Conservatives, the Liberals, UKIP all support monopolies (whether it be the People's Soviet or the Rothschilds), the banking system and the despoiling of the countryside.

I should have thought that a traditional Catholic had a duty to reject secular society, if by that you mean popular culture - it's rotten right through, modern men are rotten right through with Kant and Hegle and all that nonsense.

Sorry, I'm going on! I don't know if that helps at all.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Tory
More closely akin to the point, I'm reading 'Parade's End' by Ford Madox Ford.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 05:47:22 PM by PatrickG »
 

Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #48 on: March 20, 2013, 08:07:06 PM »
As for industrialism, I see it as something every party supports (along with abortion, fornication, Modernism, mass immigration - the list goes on) - Labour, the Conservatives, the Liberals, UKIP all support monopolies (whether it be the People's Soviet or the Rothschilds), the banking system and the despoiling of the countryside.

That's as true here as it is there.  The "despoiling of the countryside," as you so aptly put it, does not seem to register much outrage on the anger-meters of traditional Catholics.  That's generally considered a "greenie liberal hippie" issue, the province only of longhairs and treehuggers, and so the onward march of suburbia continues: an endless expanse of shopping centers, parking lots, and ugly houses.  This is mainly considered fine since it creates jobs.

Quote
I should have thought that a traditional Catholic had a duty to reject secular society, if by that you mean popular culture - it's rotten right through, modern men are rotten right through with Kant and Hegle and all that nonsense.

I don't know how many threads you peruse here, but I think it's a fair assessment to say that popular culture is not exactly roundly rejected on this forum.  Correct me if I am wrong.
 

Offline Vetus Ordo

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #49 on: March 20, 2013, 08:59:24 PM »
I've just finished reading Kundera's The Unbearable Lightness of Being.

How did you like it, Vetus?  Kundera has a calm and brooding resignation about things; I'm sure he read his E.M. Cioran with relish.  It gets very philosophical and even animal-rights-tinged towards the end.  Have you seen the movie?  And is Lena Olin one of the most beautiful actresses ever to grace the silver screen?

No, I've never seen Kaufman's adaptation to the silver screen but I'm aware of Miss Olin's beauty.

The book itself was given to me in my birthday. After reading it, it struck me as a sort of nihilistic manifesto more than a proper novel. The stories of the four main characters are more of an excuse for Kundera to explain his philosophy of life. At a certain point the book is a bit preachy, like the animal rigths thing in the end.

Nevertheless, it had its interesting insights. I found Sabina's hatred for kitsch amusing and even insightful. "When the heart speaks, the mind finds it indecent to object. In the realm of kitsch, the dictatorship of the heart reigns supreme."
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Offline PatrickG

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #50 on: March 21, 2013, 02:47:39 AM »
Quote
I should have thought that a traditional Catholic had a duty to reject secular society, if by that you mean popular culture - it's rotten right through, modern men are rotten right through with Kant and Hegle and all that nonsense.
Quote
I don't know how many threads you peruse here, but I think it's a fair assessment to say that popular culture is not exactly roundly rejected on this forum.  Correct me if I am wrong.

True enough - but I'm a die-hard follower of Bishop Williamson (a 'rad trad' is you like!)  and follow his judgement on it - rock music, for instance - it's the jungle drums, it really is.
Quote from: Fr. (now Bp.) Richard Williamson, September 1985
  THE EXPERIENCE of being with fourteen thousand teenagers to see the Beatles is unbelievable and frightening and, believe me, it is not at all funny, as I first thought when I accepted this assignment. The hysteria and loss of control go far beyond the impact of the music. Many of those present became frantic, hostile, uncontrolled, screaming unrecognizable beings. If this is possible - and it is - parents and adults have a lot to account for to allow this to go on.

"This is not simply a release, as I first thought it would be, but a very destructive process in which adults allowed the children to be involved - allowing the children a mad, erotic world of their own without the reassuring safeguards of protection from themselves. The externals are terrifying. Normally recognizable girls behaved as if possessed by some demonic urge, defying in emotional ecstasy the restraints which authorities try to place on them. The hysteria is from the girls and when you ask them what it is all about, all they can say is, 'I love them.'

"There are a lot of things you can say about why the Beatles attract the teenage crowd. The music is loud, primitive, insistent, strongly rhythmic, and releases in a disguised way (can it be called sublimation?) the all too tenuously controlled, new-acquired physical impulses of the teenager. Mix this up with the phenomena of mass hypnosis, contagious hysteria and the blissful feeling of being mixed up in an all-embracing orgiastic experience and every kid can become "Lord of the Flies," or the Beatles.

"Why do kids scream, faint, gyrate, and in general, look like a primeval, protoplasmic upheaval and go into ecstatic convulsions when certain identifiable and expected trademarks come forth, such as "Oh, yeah!" a twist of the hips or the thrusting out of an electric guitar?

"Regardless of the causes or reasons for the behavior of these youngsters, it had the impact of an unholy bedlam, the like of which I have never seen. It caused me to feel that such should not be allowed again, if only for the good of the youngsters. It was an orgy for teenagers."
In full:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Rock-and-Roll-A-deadly-Revolution

Of course, the good Bishop is scathing (and rightly so) of modern innovation in classical music, modern 'art' (which is wicked in itself to my mind). It makes perfect sense that the effluvia of modern society, which is so very evil and almost certainly deliberately so (Jews, Freemasons) is itself evil - the Beatles, rock and roll, jazz and so on lead or greatly helped the appalling sexual license today. Modern fashions, any traditionalist woman could tell you, are deliberately shameful and immodest. Yes, I sound like a conspiracy nut, I am a conspiracy nut (the good Bishop again!) but the Archbishop said we must 'resist them to their face' - resist it all, the Council, the New Mass, New Theology and I would say by practical extension 'New Music', 'New Art' and 'New Society'.

It's practically impossible not to come into some contact with the 'modern world' but at least we can react against, let us say, rock and popular music by refusing to listen to it, popular culture (and the undeniably corrupt Hollywood) by refusing to allow a television across our door-steps, bad modern books by reading good old ones, slovenly modern dress by dressing like men, effeminacy by behaving like men, the prevailing atheist humanism and liberalism by sending our sons and daughters to really Catholic schools (read: SSPX schools) and remembering (to borrow a revolting phrase) that to be a traditionalist Catholic is 'counter-cutural', it runs headlong to the massed scholarship and opinion of the age, yet we know it to be right. Nothing is more contemptible than a rallié.

PS:
Unfinished Tales by JRR Tolkien.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 12:58:59 PM by PatrickG »
 

Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #51 on: March 21, 2013, 02:20:47 PM »
Patrick, I think most of the active posters here are very supportive of Bishop Williamson.  When he speaks on topics such as the Jews or Vatican II, he is considered a maestro non pareil.  But let him turn his attention to women wearing pants or rock n' roll music, and many will have a bit of chuckle and be forced to conclude that, well, the old boy isn't perfect, and he can sure come up with some dotty musings when he sets his mind to it.  So I think they're kind of selective in that regard.

There is a Hip Hop Thread on this forum, and there is another one entitled To what are you currently listening? which (and correct me if I am wrong) is not exactly filled with Penderecki and Mozart.  I submit these threads without comment.  I am only, to use a popular phrase, "just sayin'."

I know this isn't a movie thread, but I was watching a movie called Fish Tank the other night and it featured a hip-hop song by someone called Nas.  The chorus went:

Life's a bitch and then ya die
That's why we get high
'Cos you never know
when you're gonna go, so
Life's a bitch and then ya die
That's why we puff lye.


I don't know, I found it pretty catchy.  "Jungle drums," indeed.  "But what thrilled you was just the thought of their humanity—like yours—the thought of your remote kinship with this wild and passionate uproar. Ugly. Yes, it was ugly enough; but if you were man enough you would admit to yourself that there was in you just the faintest trace of a response to the terrible frankness of that noise, a dim suspicion of there being a meaning in it which you—you so remote from the night of first ages—could comprehend. And why not? The mind of man is capable of anything—because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future," said Joseph Conrad.
 

Offline LouisIX

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2013, 02:31:29 PM »
Patrick, I think most of the active posters here are very supportive of Bishop Williamson.  When he speaks on topics such as the Jews or Vatican II, he is considered a maestro non pareil.  But let him turn his attention to women wearing pants or rock n' roll music, and many will have a bit of chuckle and be forced to conclude that, well, the old boy isn't perfect, and he can sure come up with some dotty musings when he sets his mind to it.  So I think they're kind of selective in that regard.

There is a Hip Hop Thread on this forum, and there is another one entitled To what are you currently listening? which (and correct me if I am wrong) is not exactly filled with Penderecki and Mozart.  I submit these threads without comment.  I am only, to use a popular phrase, "just sayin'."

I know this isn't a movie thread, but I was watching a movie called Fish Tank the other night and it featured a hip-hop song by someone called Nas.  The chorus went:

Life's a bitch and then ya die
That's why we get high
'Cos you never know
when you're gonna go, so
Life's a bitch and then ya die
That's why we puff lye.


I don't know, I found it pretty catchy.  "Jungle drums," indeed.  "But what thrilled you was just the thought of their humanity—like yours—the thought of your remote kinship with this wild and passionate uproar. Ugly. Yes, it was ugly enough; but if you were man enough you would admit to yourself that there was in you just the faintest trace of a response to the terrible frankness of that noise, a dim suspicion of there being a meaning in it which you—you so remote from the night of first ages—could comprehend. And why not? The mind of man is capable of anything—because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future," said Joseph Conrad.

You're coming awfully close to trashing the forum here. 
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2013, 04:01:04 PM »
You're coming awfully close to trashing the forum here.

I apologize.  That was not my intent.  As I said to Patrick, I submit the facts without judgment.  I admitted to liking a hip-hop song, and I've posted rock music selections in the music thread.  I think popular culture is very alluring, although at heart I think Bp. Williamson makes an excellent point.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I think most people are selective in what they choose to take from His Excellency, are they not?  I doubt most of us would agree with him on The Sound of Music.
 

Offline Archer

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2013, 05:53:37 PM »
Patrick, I think most of the active posters here are very supportive of Bishop Williamson.  When he speaks on topics such as the Jews or Vatican II, he is considered a maestro non pareil.  But let him turn his attention to women wearing pants or rock n' roll music, and many will have a bit of chuckle and be forced to conclude that, well, the old boy isn't perfect, and he can sure come up with some dotty musings when he sets his mind to it.  So I think they're kind of selective in that regard.

There is a Hip Hop Thread on this forum, and there is another one entitled To what are you currently listening? which (and correct me if I am wrong) is not exactly filled with Penderecki and Mozart.  I submit these threads without comment.  I am only, to use a popular phrase, "just sayin'."

I know this isn't a movie thread, but I was watching a movie called Fish Tank the other night and it featured a hip-hop song by someone called Nas.  The chorus went:

Life's a bitch and then ya die
That's why we get high
'Cos you never know
when you're gonna go, so
Life's a bitch and then ya die
That's why we puff lye.


I don't know, I found it pretty catchy.  "Jungle drums," indeed.  "But what thrilled you was just the thought of their humanity—like yours—the thought of your remote kinship with this wild and passionate uproar. Ugly. Yes, it was ugly enough; but if you were man enough you would admit to yourself that there was in you just the faintest trace of a response to the terrible frankness of that noise, a dim suspicion of there being a meaning in it which you—you so remote from the night of first ages—could comprehend. And why not? The mind of man is capable of anything—because everything is in it, all the past as well as all the future," said Joseph Conrad.

You're coming awfully close to trashing the forum here.

I thought it was a fair response.  There are many Williamson supporters on the forum but not everyone is.  In fact there's even a divide among his supporters regarding certain issues.  I see nothing wrong with the way Brock critiqued Patrick's post, especially considering his narrow minded views which he presents as truths. 
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Offline LouisIX

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2013, 09:44:12 PM »
You're coming awfully close to trashing the forum here.

I apologize.  That was not my intent.  As I said to Patrick, I submit the facts without judgment.  I admitted to liking a hip-hop song, and I've posted rock music selections in the music thread.  I think popular culture is very alluring, although at heart I think Bp. Williamson makes an excellent point.  Correct me if I am wrong, but I think most people are selective in what they choose to take from His Excellency, are they not?  I doubt most of us would agree with him on The Sound of Music.

Fiar enough.  Perhaps I misread your post.  It seemed as though you were saying that there was a lack in holiness on the forum due to the fact that there is a Hip Hop thread or a lack of Mozart or Penderecki on the music thread.

If you hold that opinion that is perfectly fine, but I'd invite you to speak about it in a more concrete sense.  Help to change people's minds in a charitable way.  Again, maybe this isn't what you meant at all.

But, Penderecki?  He's a far stretch from Mozart, no?  One is reflective of the grandeur, beauty, and orderliness of God while the other is reflective of the chaotic ugliness of Satan.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline Pon de Replay

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #56 on: March 21, 2013, 11:16:39 PM »
Fiar enough.  Perhaps I misread your post.  It seemed as though you were saying that there was a lack in holiness on the forum due to the fact that there is a Hip Hop thread or a lack of Mozart or Penderecki on the music thread.

You're not misreading me, but I wouldn't go so far as to accuse anyone of lacking holiness simply because they listen to rock or hip-hop.  I'm as guilty of that as the next person.  I do have a hunch, though, that Patrick and Bp. Williamson are probably right on this issue.  I just think it's something to keep in mind.  As my posting history probably indicates, I'm very wary of worldliness.

Quote
But, Penderecki?  He's a far stretch from Mozart, no?  One is reflective of the grandeur, beauty, and orderliness of God while the other is reflective of the chaotic ugliness of Satan.

Poor Penderecki.  He was certainly composing in the modern vein, but I wouldn't call his stylings Satanic.  Some of his pieces frequently make their way into horror movies (yikes!), but he does have some sacred music to his credit (maybe not to everyone's tastes, of course).  And then there's his Requiem Mass, which he altered after the death of John Paul II to memorialize him.  Okay, you're right.  Maybe Penderecki wouldn't be a good choice for a trad forum after all ...

 :toth:
 

Offline LouisIX

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2013, 11:24:08 PM »
Fiar enough.  Perhaps I misread your post.  It seemed as though you were saying that there was a lack in holiness on the forum due to the fact that there is a Hip Hop thread or a lack of Mozart or Penderecki on the music thread.

You're not misreading me, but I wouldn't go so far as to accuse anyone of lacking holiness simply because they listen to rock or hip-hop.  I'm as guilty of that as the next person.  I do have a hunch, though, that Patrick and Bp. Williamson are probably right on this issue.  I just think it's something to keep in mind.  As my posting history probably indicates, I'm very wary of worldliness.

Quote
But, Penderecki?  He's a far stretch from Mozart, no?  One is reflective of the grandeur, beauty, and orderliness of God while the other is reflective of the chaotic ugliness of Satan.

Poor Penderecki.  He was certainly composing in the modern vein, but I wouldn't call his stylings Satanic.  Some of his pieces frequently make their way into horror movies (yikes!), but he does have some sacred music to his credit (maybe not to everyone's tastes, of course).  And then there's his Requiem Mass, which he altered after the death of John Paul II to memorialize him.  Okay, you're right.  Maybe Penderecki wouldn't be a good choice for a trad forum after all ...

 :toth:

Believe it or not, I share a lot of your concerns with worldliness.  Holiness is really a balance between apathy/heathenism/liberalism and scrupulosity/over-sacrilizing/jansenism.  It's important that we carefully consider and pray about how to find this balance in our life and not just reject something because it seems crazy.  The truth seems absolutely bizarre in this society.

But Penderecki...  He's worse than a lot of secular music.  His stuff is like a soundtrack to hell.  I think it can be utilized well (if I was a director I'd use his music to give a backdrop to sin and evil), but man, just turning on some Penderecki while cleaning out the garage...

 
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
 

Offline maryslittlegarden

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2013, 08:44:46 PM »
The Eternal Woman by Gertrude Von Le Fort.  Excellent so far. 
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Offline BierKaiser

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Re: What are you currently reading?
« Reply #59 on: March 23, 2013, 11:57:59 PM »
Summa Theologica