Author Topic: Why did Heaven insist so much on making sacrifices for others at Fatima?  (Read 639 times)

Offline Xavier

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This thread is to discuss the value and importance of us making sacrifices for others. My Priest likes to say, Jesus didn't come to earth just to Pray for us; but also to Sacrifice for us sinners. It is very important, apparently, as we read from many Saints, to make sacrifices for sinners.

Can we reflect on why sacrifices have such power and worth in the sight of God in obtaining grace for the conversion of sinners? What are some of the simple ways in which we can offer up sacrifices, and forego small things for the benefit of those who offend us, in daily life?

Our Lady of Fatima and the Angels seemed to lay much emphasis on it. For e.g. https://www.fatima100.fr/en/the-newsletters/375-58-sacrifices-for-the-conversion-of-sinners
Quote
"On the 19th of August 1917, Our Lady did not simply ask that we pray for the conversion of sinners (see previous newsletter), she said:  “Pray.  Pray very much and make sacrifices for sinners.”  If we want to save sinners from hell, we should not therefore only pray, but we should also make sacrifices for them.

This was the fourth time in the history of Fatima that we had been asked to make sacrifices for sinners.  During the apparition in the summer of 1916 the Angel had already said:  “You must offer your prayers and sacrifices to God, the Most High.”  Lucia then asked him:  “How are we to sacrifice?”  And the Angel replied:  “In every way you can, offer a sacrifice to God in reparation for the sins by which He is offended and in supplication for the conversion of sinners.  ( … )  Above all, bear and accept with patience the sufferings God will send you.”

On the 13th of May 1917, Our Lady asked the little seers:  “Will you bear all the sufferings God sends you, in atonement for all the sins that offend Him, and in supplication for the conversion of sinners”, an almost identical expression to that of the Angel.

And on the 13th of July She told them:  “Make sacrifices for sinners”, then She asked them to say a prayer:  “O Jesus, this is for love of Thee, for the conversion of sinners, and in reparation for offences committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary.”  Both the Angel and Our Lady therefore asked that prayer be associated with sacrifice."
See also: http://archive.fatima.org/essentials/facts/1916appar.asp
Quote
The second apparition of the Angel took place during the summer of 1916. While the children were playing around their favorite well, the Angel suddenly appeared. "What are you doing?" he asked. "Pray, pray a great deal! The Holy Hearts of Jesus and Mary have designs of mercy on you. Offer unceasingly prayers and sacrifice yourselves to the Most High."

Lucy asked the Angel how they were to make sacrifices.

The Angel replied, "Make of everything you can a sacrifice and offer it to God as an act of reparation for the sins by which He is offended, and in supplication for the conversion of sinners. In this way, you will draw peace upon your country. I am its Guardian Angel, the Angel of Portugal. Above all, accept and bear with submission the sufferings which the Lord will send you."

Lucy comments, "Those words of the Angel engraved themselves in our spirit, as a light which made us understand Who God is, how much He loves us and wants to be loved by us, the value of sacrifice and how pleasing it is to Him, and that out of respect for it, God converts sinners." The dominant theme in this second apparition of the Angel was the importance of making offerings to God through every possible action and sacrifice, even the smallest, and of making the offerings with special intentions, especially for the conversion of sinners ...

Most Holy Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, I adore You profoundly, and I offer You the Most Precious Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, present in the tabernacles of the world, in reparation for the outrages, sacrileges and indifferences by which He, Himself is offended. And I draw upon the infinite merits of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus and of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, that You might convert poor sinners.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 03:15:14 AM by Xavier »
Please pray the Association of Precious Blood prayers daily, especially in the great month of July: https://www.preciousbloodinternational.com/prayers4k.html Please pray for aborted and for babies every day. You can save unborn children with every prayer for their Baptism that you say and help efficaciously end terrible abortion-killing worldwide.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ It is recommended that you make this Life Offering as soon as you feel ready, and to renew it from time to time.

Please read the Blessed Mother's amazing promises in the link: A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. The Saints say if we save even just one other soul through prayer and sacrifice, we also ensure the salvation of our own! Let us Offer our Lives in Sacrifice to Jesus and Mary to Save All Souls everywhere.
 
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Re: Why did Heaven insist so much on making sacrifices for others at Fatima?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2019, 02:20:46 PM »
Heaven didn't insist on anything at Fatima because Fatima is a deception.

Does no-one else wonder why the modern concept of 'Victim Souls', which Fatima plays into and provides the main justification for, has developed during an age of 'Victim Culture' in general?  Everyone wants to be a victim these days.

There's a lot of kudos, and gratification, in being a victim, even a self-declared one.

Be patient while you wait in the supermarket queue and you can be a Victim Soul too.  Meanwhile the dancing girls are in the Sanctuary again.
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Why did Heaven insist so much on making sacrifices for others at Fatima?
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2019, 03:07:36 PM »
I re-read the message of the Angel and the Virgin, and I really don't see anything anti-Catholic or even objectionable. The faithful carrying out of our daily duties for the love of God and in a spirit of reparation, is certainly a commendable practice; counseled in many spiritual books.
Yes, being patient in the checkout line; in traffic; or with our family members, is as close as most of us will come to martyrdom; but those are the daily crosses that God sends us in order that we can mortify our passions and follow Him on the way of the cross and our sanctification.
Fatima was approved by the Church, so it is safe for Catholics to believe in it.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Sempronius

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Re: Why did Heaven insist so much on making sacrifices for others at Fatima?
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2019, 03:56:10 PM »
Heaven didn't insist on anything at Fatima because Fatima is a deception.

Does no-one else wonder why the modern concept of 'Victim Souls', which Fatima plays into and provides the main justification for, has developed during an age of 'Victim Culture' in general?  Everyone wants to be a victim these days.

There's a lot of kudos, and gratification, in being a victim, even a self-declared one.

Be patient while you wait in the supermarket queue and you can be a Victim Soul too.  Meanwhile the dancing girls are in the Sanctuary again.

Its not a modern concept. Its just that we made it to a bourgeois Catholicism. Standing in a long line? Offer it up to God! Netflix isnt working? Offer it up!

Read about a saint that knew a man that walked to his mistress evey night and the saint knew the road that he took. So he threw himself every night into the freezing lake that was nearby, and he said to the man that he would be there everytime he went to his mistress. And eventually he felt remorse and stopped going to her.

 
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Why did Heaven insist so much on making sacrifices for others at Fatima?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2019, 04:53:25 AM »
This thread is not for Fatima-bashing, sorry. But we will offer that up as a sacrifice  ;D

The three holy children of Fatima are great role models for all children and indeed for all Catholics.

This thread is about sacrifices specifically but also more broadly about all those things that add value and efficacy to prayer. Why are some prayers very powerful in obtaining grace and some not so much? Surely, at least part of the reason is sacrifices added to prayer.

So then, let's see if we can learn from the Saints the answer to this Q: what makes prayer powerful and efficacious? Texts later, but from my reading (1) strong faith in God makes it more likely for us to receive quickly the blessings and graces we receive, while persistent doubt almost makes it certain sadly that we will not recieve; St. James the Apostle suggests this in his epistle (2) our prayer should be for the Glory of God, united to His Will, and desiring perfect conformity with that will by keeping the commandments. St. John the Apostle seems to teach this in his first epistle. St. Paul says in Hebrews that our good works and actions - and in Romans our whole selves with all we are should be offered as a living sacrifice, together with Christ's of course - are acceptable sacrifices to God (3) Our Lord Jesus Christ, in explaining the parable of the Vine and the branches, suggests we will bear abundant fruit, and that what we ask for in prayer, will be granted us, if we abide deeply in union with Him - which suggests a high degree of grace and union with Christ leads to prayers being answered faster, conformable to Tradition which has always asked for the prayers of the Saints for us, since they are holy, and to an express statement in the epistle of St. James again, that the prayer of the just avails much before God.

What else can we learn about things that increase the efficacy of prayer?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 06:34:00 AM by Xavier »
Please pray the Association of Precious Blood prayers daily, especially in the great month of July: https://www.preciousbloodinternational.com/prayers4k.html Please pray for aborted and for babies every day. You can save unborn children with every prayer for their Baptism that you say and help efficaciously end terrible abortion-killing worldwide.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ It is recommended that you make this Life Offering as soon as you feel ready, and to renew it from time to time.

Please read the Blessed Mother's amazing promises in the link: A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. The Saints say if we save even just one other soul through prayer and sacrifice, we also ensure the salvation of our own! Let us Offer our Lives in Sacrifice to Jesus and Mary to Save All Souls everywhere.
 
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Offline awkwardcustomer

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Re: Why did Heaven insist so much on making sacrifices for others at Fatima?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2019, 07:43:32 AM »
This thread is not for Fatima-bashing, sorry. But we will offer that up as a sacrifice  ;D
…...

What else can we learn about things that increase the efficacy of prayer?

Surely a love of the truth increases the efficacy of prayer.

Have you read Sr Lucy's Memoirs?  No?

Why not?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 07:46:05 AM by awkwardcustomer »
And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.
 

Offline Xavier

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Re: Why did Heaven insist so much on making sacrifices for others at Fatima?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2019, 12:56:18 AM »
Yes, Love for Truth surely increases the efficacy of prayer. Our Lady of Fatima is a messenger of Truth, and Her 3 child-messengers were also.

The Church, "the pillar and ground of Truth" has approved their messages. That should be enough for Catholics to acknowledge the truth of the heavenly apparitions. Will you claim the devil deceived the Church also? Sorry, God and His Church cannot be deceived like that.

Yes, I have read part of Sr. Lucy's memoirs; not fully, though. It's manifest to me that St. Jacinta and St. Francisco especially were heroic and Saints even from their short life.

Have you read Fr. Georges Nantes' articles defending Sr. Lucy? From Catholic Counter-Reformation below: I was hoping we could all try to understand more deeply the value of prayer with sacrifice (e.g. like prayer with fasting is said to very powerful; and also we are just approaching Lent), rather than get into a controversy again; but anyway.

Please read the article below. And the whole website has great info.

http://crc-internet.org/further-information/archives-hir/no-144-october-2014/sister-lucy-the-confident-of-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary/

God bless.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 12:58:42 AM by Xavier »
Please pray the Association of Precious Blood prayers daily, especially in the great month of July: https://www.preciousbloodinternational.com/prayers4k.html Please pray for aborted and for babies every day. You can save unborn children with every prayer for their Baptism that you say and help efficaciously end terrible abortion-killing worldwide.

Mary, our Heavenly Mother, implores those who receive Holy Communion Daily, or at least Weekly, to Offer their Lives. TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted and pluralized: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For all the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for Priests, Nuns and Monks, for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, and for All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/ It is recommended that you make this Life Offering as soon as you feel ready, and to renew it from time to time.

Please read the Blessed Mother's amazing promises in the link: A simple effective way for thousands of us to save millions of souls. The Saints say if we save even just one other soul through prayer and sacrifice, we also ensure the salvation of our own! Let us Offer our Lives in Sacrifice to Jesus and Mary to Save All Souls everywhere.
 
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Offline TradGranny

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Yes, Love for Truth surely increases the efficacy of prayer. Our Lady of Fatima is a messenger of Truth, and Her 3 child-messengers were also.

The Church, "the pillar and ground of Truth" has approved their messages. That should be enough for Catholics to acknowledge the truth of the heavenly apparitions. Will you claim the devil deceived the Church also? Sorry, God and His Church cannot be deceived like that.

Yes, I have read part of Sr. Lucy's memoirs; not fully, though. It's manifest to me that St. Jacinta and St. Francisco especially were heroic and Saints even from their short life.

Have you read Fr. Georges Nantes' articles defending Sr. Lucy? From Catholic Counter-Reformation below: I was hoping we could all try to understand more deeply the value of prayer with sacrifice (e.g. like prayer with fasting is said to very powerful; and also we are just approaching Lent), rather than get into a controversy again; but anyway.

Please read the article below. And the whole website has great info.

http://crc-internet.org/further-information/archives-hir/no-144-october-2014/sister-lucy-the-confident-of-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary/

God bless.

Great link! Thank you.
To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that.
Saint Teresa of Avila
 
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Offline mikemac

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Yes, Love for Truth surely increases the efficacy of prayer. Our Lady of Fatima is a messenger of Truth, and Her 3 child-messengers were also.

The Church, "the pillar and ground of Truth" has approved their messages. That should be enough for Catholics to acknowledge the truth of the heavenly apparitions. Will you claim the devil deceived the Church also? Sorry, God and His Church cannot be deceived like that.

Yes, I have read part of Sr. Lucy's memoirs; not fully, though. It's manifest to me that St. Jacinta and St. Francisco especially were heroic and Saints even from their short life.

Have you read Fr. Georges Nantes' articles defending Sr. Lucy? From Catholic Counter-Reformation below: I was hoping we could all try to understand more deeply the value of prayer with sacrifice (e.g. like prayer with fasting is said to very powerful; and also we are just approaching Lent), rather than get into a controversy again; but anyway.

Please read the article below. And the whole website has great info.

http://crc-internet.org/further-information/archives-hir/no-144-october-2014/sister-lucy-the-confident-of-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary/

God bless.

Great link! Thank you.

Yeah, great link.

By the way, the Msgr. Luciano Guerra that is mentioned a few times on this page is the same Msgr. Luciano Guerra that allowed the Hindu ceremony to take place on May 5, 2004 on the altar in the Little Chapel of the Apparitions (Capelinha) at Fatima.

Pray for a proper consecration of Russia to Mary's Immaculate Heart.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 
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