Author Topic: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church  (Read 2557 times)

Offline Howard Kopsho

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2019, 05:37:00 AM »
Howard, religion isn't a matter of preference like preferring Coca Cola to Pepsi. God demands to be worshipped in the right way, and only the Catholic Church worships in the right way. If you're going to church not to please God, but to please yourself and your lady friend, then you might as well stop going altogether and not bother calling yourself a religious man. It was foolish of you to attend Baptist services and even to accept their false rite of baptism before asking whether it would be pleasing to God. Many times in the bible God accuses the Israelites of adultery for worshipping in a false way, and you should know that the bible refers to the Church as Christ's Bride. So you should be careful not to commit religious adultery against God by going back and forth.
As long as I attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish then what is the big deal that I attend the local Baptist Church every Sunday morning? I don't consider Baptist Baptism to be false because it is done in the name of the Holy Trinity which is the formula that Jesus gave for Baptism. I don't consider Baptist worship to be false because Baptists worship Jesus as God. The worship of Jesus as God is what constitutes a true church. Therefore not only is the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches true church but so are Mainline Protestant and Evangelical Protestant churches true churches.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 05:46:32 AM by Howard Kopsho »
 

Offline Howard Kopsho

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2019, 05:38:38 AM »
Howard is clearly playing you at every post he makes but you're answering him as if he's being serious.

Get real.
I was serious in everything I stated.
 

Offline John Lamb

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2019, 06:50:22 AM »
Howard, religion isn't a matter of preference like preferring Coca Cola to Pepsi. God demands to be worshipped in the right way, and only the Catholic Church worships in the right way. If you're going to church not to please God, but to please yourself and your lady friend, then you might as well stop going altogether and not bother calling yourself a religious man. It was foolish of you to attend Baptist services and even to accept their false rite of baptism before asking whether it would be pleasing to God. Many times in the bible God accuses the Israelites of adultery for worshipping in a false way, and you should know that the bible refers to the Church as Christ's Bride. So you should be careful not to commit religious adultery against God by going back and forth.
As long as I attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish then what is the big deal that I attend the local Baptist Church every Sunday morning? I don't consider Baptist Baptism to be false because it is done in the name of the Holy Trinity which is the formula that Jesus gave for Baptism. I don't consider Baptist worship to be false because Baptists worship Jesus as God. The worship of Jesus as God is what constitutes a true church. Therefore not only is the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches true church but so are Mainline Protestant and Evangelical Protestant churches true churches.

1. The oneness of the Church, of the faith, of baptism requires that we worship in the one Holy Catholic Church and no other. Christ established one Church, one sheepfold, in which all His members are united in the oneness of spiritual love. By going to sects which are separated from the one Holy Catholic Church you are severing this bond of love and therefore sinning against Christ.

2. Baptism can't be repeated, so even if the sacrament was correct you couldn't have received it – and shouldn't have tried to receive it – again. But as well, the correct intention must be present if the sacrament of baptism is to properly occur, and if I'm not mistaken Baptists do not baptise with the correct intention (unto the remission of sins).

3. In order to perform right worship it is not only necessary to worship Jesus as God, but to worship Jesus in the way He intends us to worship Him: through the sacramental priesthood he ordained, in the offering of the Holy Eucharist consecrated upon the altar, united in the charity of the one Holy Catholic Church. — Baptists do not have the sacramental priesthood, do not have the Holy Eucharist, and do not have the unity of the Catholic Church: therefore, they cannot perform right worship or please Jesus Christ or God in any of their religious services.

4. Protestant communities are not true particular churches because they lack apostolic succession (the episcopate) and the full sacramental economy (especially the Holy Eucharist). They do not even have the proper form of a Christian church. Insofar as Christ's Church does at all exist among Protestant communities it is in a very flawed, imperfect, defective, and germinal state by virtue of their baptism (if they have sacramental baptism) and those Catholic doctrines which they have maintained.



I have to agree that you seem insincere. Still it's worth answering your errors in case other people are reading and to not leave them in any doubt. However, your errors are very basic and if you – or any other reader – is wondering what the answer to them is you can easily find it in the Catechism of the Catholic Church or in the Roman Catechism. But I'm not going to answer any more of your errors unless you show an actual desire to know the truth and to be corrected, rather than making blank controversial statements ad nauseum with barely any reasoning or seeming concern for what's at stake.
As many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. (John 1:12)
 
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Offline Howard Kopsho

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2019, 09:17:29 AM »
Howard, religion isn't a matter of preference like preferring Coca Cola to Pepsi. God demands to be worshipped in the right way, and only the Catholic Church worships in the right way. If you're going to church not to please God, but to please yourself and your lady friend, then you might as well stop going altogether and not bother calling yourself a religious man. It was foolish of you to attend Baptist services and even to accept their false rite of baptism before asking whether it would be pleasing to God. Many times in the bible God accuses the Israelites of adultery for worshipping in a false way, and you should know that the bible refers to the Church as Christ's Bride. So you should be careful not to commit religious adultery against God by going back and forth.
As long as I attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish then what is the big deal that I attend the local Baptist Church every Sunday morning? I don't consider Baptist Baptism to be false because it is done in the name of the Holy Trinity which is the formula that Jesus gave for Baptism. I don't consider Baptist worship to be false because Baptists worship Jesus as God. The worship of Jesus as God is what constitutes a true church. Therefore not only is the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches true church but so are Mainline Protestant and Evangelical Protestant churches true churches.

1. The oneness of the Church, of the faith, of baptism requires that we worship in the one Holy Catholic Church and no other. Christ established one Church, one sheepfold, in which all His members are united in the oneness of spiritual love. By going to sects which are separated from the one Holy Catholic Church you are severing this bond of love and therefore sinning against Christ.

2. Baptism can't be repeated, so even if the sacrament was correct you couldn't have received it – and shouldn't have tried to receive it – again. But as well, the correct intention must be present if the sacrament of baptism is to properly occur, and if I'm not mistaken Baptists do not baptise with the correct intention (unto the remission of sins).

3. In order to perform right worship it is not only necessary to worship Jesus as God, but to worship Jesus in the way He intends us to worship Him: through the sacramental priesthood he ordained, in the offering of the Holy Eucharist consecrated upon the altar, united in the charity of the one Holy Catholic Church. — Baptists do not have the sacramental priesthood, do not have the Holy Eucharist, and do not have the unity of the Catholic Church: therefore, they cannot perform right worship or please Jesus Christ or God in any of their religious services.

4. Protestant communities are not true particular churches because they lack apostolic succession (the episcopate) and the full sacramental economy (especially the Holy Eucharist). They do not even have the proper form of a Christian church. Insofar as Christ's Church does at all exist among Protestant communities it is in a very flawed, imperfect, defective, and germinal state by virtue of their baptism (if they have sacramental baptism) and those Catholic doctrines which they have maintained.



I have to agree that you seem insincere. Still it's worth answering your errors in case other people are reading and to not leave them in any doubt. However, your errors are very basic and if you – or any other reader – is wondering what the answer to them is you can easily find it in the Catechism of the Catholic Church or in the Roman Catechism. But I'm not going to answer any more of your errors unless you show an actual desire to know the truth and to be corrected, rather than making blank controversial statements ad nauseum with barely any reasoning or seeming concern for what's at stake.
Since Vatican II Catholics are permitted to attend a Non Catholic Church on Sunday as long as they attend Saturday Vigil Mass. The Catholic Church acknowledges the validity of Protestant Baptism if it is done in the name of the Holy Trinity. Non Catholics who were Baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity don't have to get Baptized in the Catholic Church when they become Catholic. I consider Baptist worship to be pleasing to Jesus because Baptists worship Jesus as God. I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.
 

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2019, 09:38:48 AM »
You're missing the point by a mile.

If you were previously baptized as a Catholic, the immersion baptism at the Baptists was not effective, not because it can't be, because you were already baptized. Attempting to repeat the Sacrament without a conditional necessity is sacrilege.

Vatican 2 did not grant that people can willy-nilly attend Protestant services, as you seem to believe. I posted the relevant section from Unitatis Redintegratio, along with how that portion is understood within the context of Church teaching and Tradition.

What "you" consider as right or good is, frankly, irrelevant unless it is in line with the Church's teaching on these things. As of now, you are engaging in the usurping of authority and interpretation of the Church's own teaching.

I showed you from Scripture many things, and asked you to counter with Scripture. You have failed to do so.

May God have mercy on your soul, because you seem hell-bent on damning it.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.

Woe is me, because I have held my peace. Isaiah 6
 
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Offline John Lamb

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2019, 10:03:55 AM »
I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.

So why open the discussion if you already know what you're going to do?
As many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. (John 1:12)
 
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Offline Howard Kopsho

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2019, 10:15:36 AM »
I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.

So why open the discussion if you already know what you're going to do?
I opened up the conversation to clear up the misapprehension that Catholics are not permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday even if they attend Saturday Vigil Mass on Saturday.
 

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2019, 10:17:22 AM »
I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.

So why open the discussion if you already know what you're going to do?
I opened up the conversation to clear up the misapprehension that Catholics are not permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday even if they attend Saturday Vigil Mass on Saturday.

Which is untrue. Even Vatican 2 disagrees with what you have said. You keep claiming this with no backing up of it, and I've shown you scripture, teaching from the Holy Office from 1622-1939, Vatican 2 document which specifically addresses this issue, and Cardinal Arinze on the issue of attending Protestant services.

You're either a complete idiot or willfully ignorant.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.

Woe is me, because I have held my peace. Isaiah 6
 

Offline John Lamb

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2019, 10:27:14 AM »
I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.

So why open the discussion if you already know what you're going to do?
I opened up the conversation to clear up the misapprehension that Catholics are not permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday even if they attend Saturday Vigil Mass on Saturday.

Thanks for that Pope Howard I.
As many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. (John 1:12)
 

Offline Howard Kopsho

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2019, 10:36:12 AM »
I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.

So why open the discussion if you already know what you're going to do?
I opened up the conversation to clear up the misapprehension that Catholics are not permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday even if they attend Saturday Vigil Mass on Saturday.

Which is untrue. Even Vatican 2 disagrees with what you have said. You keep claiming this with no backing up of it, and I've shown you scripture, teaching from the Holy Office from 1622-1939, Vatican 2 document which specifically addresses this issue, and Cardinal Arinze on the issue of attending Protestant services.

You're either a complete idiot or willfully ignorant.
I was taught in religious education class while in elementary school that Catholics are permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday as long as they attend Saturday Vigil Mass. Why would it be wrong for a Catholic to attend a Protestant Church on Sunday if they do not forsake attending Saturday Vigil Mass?
 

Offline John Lamb

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2019, 10:57:10 AM »
I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.

So why open the discussion if you already know what you're going to do?
I opened up the conversation to clear up the misapprehension that Catholics are not permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday even if they attend Saturday Vigil Mass on Saturday.

Which is untrue. Even Vatican 2 disagrees with what you have said. You keep claiming this with no backing up of it, and I've shown you scripture, teaching from the Holy Office from 1622-1939, Vatican 2 document which specifically addresses this issue, and Cardinal Arinze on the issue of attending Protestant services.

You're either a complete idiot or willfully ignorant.
I was taught in religious education class while in elementary school that Catholics are permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday as long as they attend Saturday Vigil Mass. Why would it be wrong for a Catholic to attend a Protestant Church on Sunday if they do not forsake attending Saturday Vigil Mass?

Howard, that's like asking why a man can't be with a prostitute on Sunday if he's faithful to his wife on Saturday.
The Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ, and all false sects like the Baptist Church are prostitutes of Satan – even if they happen to have ignorant & well-meaning people among them. Why are you spending Sunday, the Lord's Day, with a prostitute? It doesn't matter that they pay lip-service to Christ when Christ is not present among them as He is really present in the Catholic Church.
As many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. (John 1:12)
 

Offline John Lamb

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2019, 11:06:26 AM »
It's important not to judge religious things by appearances, because here we're dealing with what is spiritual and therefore invisible. You can have a religion which is by all appearances wonderfully Christian, outwardly beautiful in the way it worships, with men full of zeal in preaching – yet spiritually & religiously dead. So while by appearances the Baptist church might appear to be in no way inferior to your local Catholic church, the reality is that Jesus Christ is present in the Catholic church (really & substantially present in the Holy Eucharist, and mystically present in the souls of the Catholic faithful who make up His mystical Body) whereas He is not present in the Baptist church. Perhaps there are sincere and well-meaning folk in the Baptist church whom Christ has pity on and unites Himself to in some way despite their ignorance of His true Church and true worship; but the Baptist church itself – apart from the people who compose it – is definitely evil and belongs to Satan, even if it has borrowed (or stolen) some good things from the One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic Church which Christ founded. Therefore, as a man who is in the highly privileged and blessed position of having the fullness of Catholic faith & worship, it is your duty before God to worship him on a Sunday (and every day) in the Catholic Church united to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in as much as you're able to, and if you can to draw your Baptist friends to worship the Lord Jesus Christ in the true Church – i.e. the Catholic Church – so that they too can enjoy and take part in the full economy of salvation with all the sacramental & spiritual graces which flow through His mystical Body the Church in communion with the saints.

Again, do not judge by appearances. There may be good things in the Baptist church and decent people there too, but Jesus Christ founded only one religion, and if you wish to be faithful to Jesus Christ you must be faithful to the religion He founded. You can't go to the Catholic Church and pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary and the saints and receive the Lord in Holy Communion believing it is His Body & His Blood, then go to the Baptist church where all these things are hated and mocked. That's not just unfaithfulness it's a kind of dishonesty.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:10:46 AM by John Lamb »
As many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. (John 1:12)
 

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2019, 11:18:55 AM »
I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.

So why open the discussion if you already know what you're going to do?
I opened up the conversation to clear up the misapprehension that Catholics are not permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday even if they attend Saturday Vigil Mass on Saturday.

Which is untrue. Even Vatican 2 disagrees with what you have said. You keep claiming this with no backing up of it, and I've shown you scripture, teaching from the Holy Office from 1622-1939, Vatican 2 document which specifically addresses this issue, and Cardinal Arinze on the issue of attending Protestant services.

You're either a complete idiot or willfully ignorant.
I was taught in religious education class while in elementary school that Catholics are permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday as long as they attend Saturday Vigil Mass. Why would it be wrong for a Catholic to attend a Protestant Church on Sunday if they do not forsake attending Saturday Vigil Mass?

You were lied to.

I've shown you multiple sources from multiple levels about the issue of communication in sacris, including the very document in the 2nd Vatican Council which was twisted and abused by those who LIED TO YOU.
"And what use are the victories on the battlefield if we are ourselves are defeated in our innermost personal selves?" - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Providence is a present mystery by which our hope is confirmed and our faith solidified, if we give not into despair or disbelief.

Woe is me, because I have held my peace. Isaiah 6
 

Offline Howard Kopsho

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2019, 11:22:17 AM »
I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.

So why open the discussion if you already know what you're going to do?
I opened up the conversation to clear up the misapprehension that Catholics are not permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday even if they attend Saturday Vigil Mass on Saturday.

Which is untrue. Even Vatican 2 disagrees with what you have said. You keep claiming this with no backing up of it, and I've shown you scripture, teaching from the Holy Office from 1622-1939, Vatican 2 document which specifically addresses this issue, and Cardinal Arinze on the issue of attending Protestant services.

You're either a complete idiot or willfully ignorant.
I was taught in religious education class while in elementary school that Catholics are permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday as long as they attend Saturday Vigil Mass. Why would it be wrong for a Catholic to attend a Protestant Church on Sunday if they do not forsake attending Saturday Vigil Mass?

Howard, that's like asking why a man can't be with a prostitute on Sunday if he's faithful to his wife on Saturday.
The Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ, and all false sects like the Baptist Church are prostitutes of Satan – even if they happen to have ignorant & well-meaning people among them. Why are you spending Sunday, the Lord's Day, with a prostitute? It doesn't matter that they pay lip-service to Christ when Christ is not present among them as He is really present in the Catholic Church.
The Second Vatican Council does not state that Protestant Churches are false. The Second Vatican Council calls Protestants separated brethren. Jesus is present in Baptist and other Protestant Churches because Jesus stated "Wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in my name there I am". I was taught in religious education class growing up that Catholics are permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday as long as they attend Saturday Vigil Mass. Even the Pope attend worship at a Lutheran Church in commemoration of the 500th anniversary of Luther nailing his thesis to the church door in Germany.
 

Offline Heinrich

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Re: Catholic Attending A Catholic Church And A Baptist Church
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2019, 11:29:14 AM »
I am going to continue to attend Saturday Vigil Mass at the local Catholic parish and attend the local Baptist Church on Sunday mornings.

So why open the discussion if you already know what you're going to do?
I opened up the conversation to clear up the misapprehension that Catholics are not permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday even if they attend Saturday Vigil Mass on Saturday.

Which is untrue. Even Vatican 2 disagrees with what you have said. You keep claiming this with no backing up of it, and I've shown you scripture, teaching from the Holy Office from 1622-1939, Vatican 2 document which specifically addresses this issue, and Cardinal Arinze on the issue of attending Protestant services.

You're either a complete idiot or willfully ignorant.
I was taught in religious education class while in elementary school that Catholics are permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday as long as they attend Saturday Vigil Mass. Why would it be wrong for a Catholic to attend a Protestant Church on Sunday if they do not forsake attending Saturday Vigil Mass?

Howard, that's like asking why a man can't be with a prostitute on Sunday if he's faithful to his wife on Saturday.
The Catholic Church is the Bride of Christ, and all false sects like the Baptist Church are prostitutes of Satan – even if they happen to have ignorant & well-meaning people among them. Why are you spending Sunday, the Lord's Day, with a prostitute? It doesn't matter that they pay lip-service to Christ when Christ is not present among them as He is really present in the Catholic Church.
The Second Vatican Council does not state that Protestant Churches are false. The Second Vatican Council calls Protestants separated brethren. Jesus is present in Baptist and other Protestant Churches because Jesus stated "Wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in my name there I am". I was taught in religious education class growing up that Catholics are permitted to attend Protestant Church on Sunday as long as they attend Saturday Vigil Mass. Even the Pope attend worship at a Lutheran Church in commemoration of the 500th anniversary of Luther nailing his thesis to the church door in Germany.

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Where is thy lustre now?" King Lear, Scene 7 of Act 3
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