Author Topic: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?  (Read 1625 times)

Offline Gardener

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2018, 11:07:11 AM »
Jails have become the de facto mental institution.
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Offline red solo cup

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2018, 03:32:19 PM »
Jails have become the de facto mental institution.
That and Emergency Rooms. When I was an EMT we used to take them in all the time. Some of them had learned that if you arrive in an ambulance, you are seen right away...no sitting around in the waiting room. And they can't turn them away.
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Offline longstrangetrip5

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2018, 06:18:52 PM »
Jails have become the de facto mental institution.
That and Emergency Rooms. When I was an EMT we used to take them in all the time. Some of them had learned that if you arrive in an ambulance, you are seen right away...no sitting around in the waiting room. And they can't turn them away.

well, assuming u are speaking of people who are faking mental illness (?) it is selfish to use the emergency rooms like that but people have to be taught that it is selfish. What I myself keep forgetting about those not "catechized" is that  they have not been catechized. In other words Ignorance covers a multitude of offenses.. When I was young, i was selfish but i didnt KNOW i was selfish
 

Offline syllabus.errorum

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2019, 03:11:47 PM »
Does the US still have "mental institutions"?

the u.s. is a mental institution
 
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Offline dymphnaw

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2019, 03:59:41 PM »

[/quote]

They are guarded by men who ask for your thumb print and take a picture of you.

Provided you have a foreign passport you are allowed to leave again.

[/quote]which is why the hapless homeless don't want to be there, ditto homeless shelters. Yeh, you can leave the latter, but "they" will know all about where you are going and why

creepy world we live in. Rand Paul, keep fighting for privacy. So far the only privacy we have is the right to kill our helpless children in the womb. How that has anything to do with privacy is still rather beyond me.. A woman should be able to murder in her own womb, whcih is a private place?    Maybe she should think about that Place before there is a human being living there? Just a thought.... and as to rape: it is not the child's fault, so... yeh, we have had R v W around so long we forget the M word.. we have become Nazis who call human beings... something other than human beings (useless eaters...and etc)

sigh

 
[/quote]


Actually many homeless don't want to go to the shelter because they aren't allowed to drink and get high on the premises.
 

Offline Anthony

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2019, 10:25:45 PM »
Yes, here is a list of some institutions that are still considered mental institutions for the deranged and unstable:

Congress
Senate
Oval Office
City Halls
Novus Ordo churches
Protestant churches

...and the list could go on and on. But these are some of the ones I know of.
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2019, 05:09:01 AM »

I have had the same thought, but again, it seems the Church is so worldly and most priests only seem to care about themselves and their "brotherhood" of priests. It is just another men's club, it seems (at times), which of course, when you consider that many priests belong to those secret boy's clubs (FMs), well... not surprising we find self-absorbed, essentially un-Christian "priests"


I strongly object to this sweeping generalization.  I have not met a single traditionalist Catholic priest like that, so I have no idea exactly of whom you speak.  I'd be careful, if I were you, of treading near calumny.

Nevertheless, there seems to be a misunderstanding out there about the duties of a priest.  His first responsibility is to his parishioners -- their sacramental needs, their spiritual needs, and their corporal needs.  In other words, the local Spiritual and Corporal Works of Mercy. His first responsibility, as a priest, is to serve his flock. 

Nothing is a bigger turn-off to me than what I see on the diocesan, non-traditionalist level:  priests who run around in the secular arena in "social justice" causes (many of which are allied with the political Left and the most radical members of the Democratic Party, not at all with Catholic causes), while putting the spiritual and practical needs of their parishioners in second or third place.  I seem now to be generalizing and caricaturizing, just as I do not like your generalizations about traditionalist priests.  But I would boil it down to this, in my vast experience in both traditional and diocesan arenas -- which run very differently, by the way:

Traditionalist priests:
They are focused on their flocks first -- Works of Mercy, comprehensively -- not social engagements or other distractions, although I do accuse many lay traditionalists of putting social/recreational demands on their own priests which I find very selfish of those lay people, and I see it weekly.

They are also called almost every week for hospital visits (usually dying children) outside the parish but in the same local vicinity.  That would certainly be a secondary but high-priority duty.

They take on a third duty -- one of evangelization for Tradition and the teaching of the Latin Mass to interested other priests, including the minority of diocesan priests who do come forward and ask for that training.

Fourthly, they participate in explicitly Catholic causes, such as pro-Life or similar events, as long as those do not supplant the sacraments on a weekend, for example.  Priority 4 is only as time allows.

Diocesan priests:
Priority 1:
Most are focused on the so-called "social gospel," not just primarily but often exclusively, in terms of ministry, that is.  I described above how that gets translated on the ground -- not Catholic causes but secular causes.  The result is that the sacraments and souls of the parish get relegated to last place.  This is why we find diocesan priests who "have time" to join political protests but "have no time" to hear confessions outside of 30 minutes on Saturday afternoon.
Priority 2 (because they have no choice in this):  ridiculous bureaucratic duties and other busy work for the bishop.  Time-wasting activities of the kind that are quite draining to priests, probably more draining than hearing Confessions.
Priority 3: Last in importance, in many dioceses, are the immediate spiritual needs of the parishioners.  (Occasional sacraments, zero spiritual direction, etc.)

I no longer see the "Old Boys Clubs" among diocesan or traditionalist priests because there are not enough of either locally, with enough free time, to form any kind of a club.  Maybe your experience is different, but it has been a very long time since I have since this is my own region. 

I have not met any traditionalist priest who is an exception to the above summary, and I have met some diocesan priests who try to pattern their priesthoods with those same or similar priorities, also putting local Spiritual and Corporal Works of Mercy first, because -- again-- that is the responsibility of a priest.  However, diocesan priests are more directly answerable to the bishop's agenda than any priest who is a member of a traditionalist apostolate.  So therefore, diocesan priests have fewer choices, usually, in how they spend their time.  And some bishops want their priests to "see and be seen" at so-called "social gospel" (but not very Catholic) events.

As to the business about priests becoming psychiatrists or psychiatric caretakers, I think that is a very bad idea, for lots of reasons.  Psychiatry is a professional field of its own, requiring medical expertise.  Just as it would far too hard to be both priest and surgeon, even if a priest possessed a medical degree, so, too, for psychiatry and the priesthood.  It makes more sense to me that priests choose to add the Corporal Work of prison ministry to their "outside" duties (just as they get periodic or frequent hospital calls), because prison ministry requires much less expertise than dealing directly with the mentally ill.

There are degrees and a variety of types of mental illness -- only some of which are suitable for the untrained to minister to.  While even a layperson is capable of visiting and serving the "harmlessly" mentally ill, I'm pretty sure there are far fewer of those housed in actual institutional settings than those who are seriously manipulative or deranged.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 11:41:23 AM by Miriam_M »
 
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Offline clau clau

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2019, 05:55:53 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlem_Royal_Hospital

The word "bedlam", meaning uproar and confusion, is derived from the hospital's nickname. Although the hospital became a modern psychiatric facility, historically it was representative of the worst excesses of asylums in the era of lunacy reform.

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Offline Josephine87

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2019, 10:57:28 AM »
I do accuse many lay traditionalists of putting social/recreational demands on their own priests which I find very selfish of those lay people, and I see it weekly.

This is such a great post.  It's nice to see your insight into diocesan things. 

I do wonder what you mean by this.  Lay people wanting the priest to "hang out" outside of church?  I hear friends of mine who have one of our priests over for dinner or take them out to eat. 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2019, 11:40:18 AM »
I do accuse many lay traditionalists of putting social/recreational demands on their own priests which I find very selfish of those lay people, and I see it weekly.

This is such a great post.  It's nice to see your insight into diocesan things. 

I do wonder what you mean by this.  Lay people wanting the priest to "hang out" outside of church?  I hear friends of mine who have one of our priests over for dinner or take them out to eat.


Happy to clarify, Josephine.  There are many couples -- and maybe it's just coincidental, but it's always the ones without children -- who behave as if the priest is obligated to come to dinner at their house often.  By often I mean several times a year. 

Look, it's wonderful to be hospitable to a priest and invite him into your home.  It's an old tradition in Catholicism.  But do the math if there are many other families who also want to do that. And why are people not considering the priest's need for rest, the option he might have, on a free evening, to accept an invitation to a concert or other event that might actually be more interesting to him than hanging out with people he already sees almost daily at the parish?  This is especially a problem for priests who are quite generous with their time.  For me, when I see that others have been generous with their time -- whether with me or with others, or both -- my impulse is to give them some breathing room.

When I speak of "obligation," by the way, I'm referring to the words and the tone I hear them speak to him when they "invite" him.  It's expressed much more as a responsibility than as a warm invitation.

There have been a number of occasions in this parish when the parish has been warned, or has simply observed, that the priest(s) are overtaxed.  Sometimes these priests have needed to take a short or long retreat -- not the retreats routinely scheduled -- just to escape from persistent parishioners making demands on them.  I think this is reprehensible on the part of such parishioners, to be so insensitive.  We do not have a right to social encounters or engagements with our priests -- diocesan or traditionalist.  He is under no "obligation" to accept a single invitation from us.

[edited for typos]
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 11:45:43 AM by Miriam_M »
 
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Offline dymphnaw

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2019, 04:09:23 PM »

I have had the same thought, but again, it seems the Church is so worldly and most priests only seem to care about themselves and their "brotherhood" of priests. It is just another men's club, it seems (at times), which of course, when you consider that many priests belong to those secret boy's clubs (FMs), well... not surprising we find self-absorbed, essentially un-Christian "priests"



When I read stuff like this I just shake my head. No wonder so many priests are taught in the seminary to  be wary of Trads as nosy, mean and imperious. Who the heck else is a priest supposed to talk to, if not his own brothers? Who else understands what he deals with everyday? He's a human being who dare not get too close to his parishioners because of the jealousy of others and he has a mountain of stress and worry to deal with. And the priest is not your personal priest. He has to be Father to every slob who walks in the door. So many lay people get their noses out of joint because Father does not have time to hear about their precious cats or because the poor man needs to go the bathroom and yes, is in a hurry to do it. I love my priests but I don't monopolize them and  I'm certain that when they think of me they don't cringe.

 
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2019, 04:53:46 PM »

He's a human being who dare not get too close to his parishioners because of the jealousy of others

Indeed.  When I mentioned above the fact that a couple of our priests have had to take extended vacations (extra "retreats"), I didn't also mention that some of that has been because of undue curiosity, on the part of some, about his closeness to the parishioners.  For one of our priests, this has meant that -- because some want too much of his time and pretend to be "intimate" with him -- he has had to erect an artificial guard over his emotions and his closeness to everybody, which is unfair and detrimental to his healthily close relationships.  This is what happens to a priest when a few choose to abuse his goodness, openness, and generosity: he is forced eventually to withdraw and withhold the very gifts and graces upon which his entire flock depends.

Quote
And the priest is not your personal priest. He has to be Father to every slob who walks in the door.

You are quoting me without having known it.  This is precisely what I have said to some others in our parish.  Far too many treat him as not only their personal priest, but their private priest, meaning exclusively theirs or with assumed priority in his life.  What kind of arrogance and avarice is that?  It's repulsive arrogance and avarice, and a massive failure in charity toward the parish as a whole.

Quote
So many lay people get their noses out of joint because Father does not have time to hear about their precious cats or because the poor man needs to go the bathroom and yes, is in a hurry to do it. I love my priests but I don't monopolize them and  I'm certain that when they think of me they don't cringe.

I totally know, and I find it embarrassing to watch.  People who shove photographs in his face, people who visit the sacristy to tell him things or ask him questions they could easily and more freely ask during the reception which follows Mass.  How selfish and unaware is that?  But again, it's the same idea with the assumption that he "must" accept dinner invitations.  No, he mustn't.  He needn't accept a single one of them.  The fact that he does -- especially of people who are frankly bad cooks (I've been "treated" to their cooking) when his taste is much more refined than that -- is merely a testament to his tolerance and long-suffering.
 

Offline Josephine87

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2019, 08:26:14 PM »
It's good to know of this issue because I had no idea!  I barely talk to our priests, mostly because I'm uncomfortable talking to them.  I'm a convert so I don't have this natural way of talking to priests.  I will pray for priests suffering from this issue.
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“My present trial seems to me a somewhat painful one, and I have the humiliation of knowing how badly I bore it at first. I now want to accept and to carry this little cross joyfully, to carry it silently, with a smile in my heart and on my lips, in union with the Cross of Christ. My God, blessed be Thou; accept from me each day the embarrassment, inconvenience, and pain this misery causes me. May it become a prayer and an act of reparation." -Elisabeth Leseur
 

Offline The Harlequin King

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Re: Does the US still have "mental institutions"?
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2019, 10:01:36 AM »
That's an interesting tangent about the personal time of priests. In reality, both observations are correct; there is a boys' club (how else do you think the McCarrick crisis happened?) AND laypeople do often monopolize priests' time. It just depends on the priest. Some are good, some are bad, some are in the middle. My present job is as secretary to a priest, so I see a lot of it first-hand.

At my own parish, though, I'm the instituted acolyte/subdeacon, but my pastor kind of has to go out of his way to ask me how I'm doing or if he can come over to visit!