Author Topic: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)  (Read 21744 times)

Offline LausTibiChriste

  • #ImpeachFrancis2018
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5514
  • Thanked: 2527 times
  • sip sip
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #120 on: November 25, 2015, 12:46:02 PM »
I wouldn't say the pope is a higher authority than scripture....



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

I would, in a certain sense. Scripture is high, yes, but we need an immutable, authoritative 'body' to interpret it. That's not to say a Pope can "overrule" scripture
‎"Traditionalists are some of the worst modernists on the planet"
     -Fr. Chad Ripperger

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"
     -Wayne Gretzky
          -Michael Scott
 

Offline Traditionallyruralmom

  • Mary Garden
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1410
  • Thanked: 1263 times
  • Raising warriors for Christ and our country!
  • Religion: Traditional Catholic
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #121 on: November 25, 2015, 03:30:11 PM »
Only God can change teaching from scripture or overrule it.  Only the authority that laid down the law can change the law.  This was the theme of our Sermon this week.
Christus vincit, Christus regnat, Christus imperat.
 

Offline dymphna17

  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 7833
  • Thanked: 5355 times
  • Be still and know that I am God
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #122 on: November 25, 2015, 04:04:08 PM »
Only God can change teaching from scripture or overrule it.  Only the authority that laid down the law can change the law.  This was the theme of our Sermon this week.

Yes, but who does He do that through?  He doesn't  come down here and say, "Hey, I want this to mean something different now."  Someone has to reinterpret for us.  Look at circumcision.  That was a law from the old order.  Now it's not.  God didn't come down and say, "Don't do this anymore."  Someone had to decide that this is the way God wants it now and implement it throughout the Church.
ن
I adore Thee O Christ, and I bless Thee, because by Thy holy cross Thou hast redeemed the world!

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph save souls!

Of course I wear jeans, "The tornadoes can make dresses immodest." RSC

“Don’t waste time in your life trying to get even with your enemies. The grave is a tremendous equalizer. Six weeks after you all are dead, you’ll look pretty much the same. Let the Lord take care of those whom you think have harmed you. All you have to do is love and forgive. Try to forget and leave all else to the Master.”– Mother Angelica
 
The following users thanked this post: Blue Violet

Offline Lydia Purpuraria

  • Mary Garden
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2665
  • Thanked: 755 times
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #123 on: November 29, 2015, 09:46:58 AM »
But that still doesn't explain why they would bother to put those additional canons in.  Why are they necessary if every code before it is wiped off the books?  Is there some other context for those canons that I should be aware of?  Also, I think just the fact that there is so much confusion over the issue would indicate (at least some manner of) "doubt."

Not every law is contained in the Code of Canon Law. The innumerable local concessions, privileges, indults, etc., are presumed valid unless expressly revoked.

Okay, so perhaps those canons are in place for this reason.  How a practice that is explicitly commanded in Scripture, has serious spiritual significance, and has been practiced by Catholics for centuries wouldn't still be presumed as valid (and encouraged as such) due seemingly to a legal technicality is mind-boggling to me (but then again, I'm no canon lawyer ;)). 

Quote
A lot of the "confusion," frankly, is caused by people with no training in canon law interpreting canon law. It is a legal system just like common law in the US, and the record of non-lawyers defending themselves in court is not good. There are principles of interpretation in legal study of which those without training are ignorant. Sometimes things are better left to the lawyers, just I truly believe some things are better left to trained theologians.

You're probably right about laypeople adding to some of the confusion... but, I don't think it's right to place the burden of blame for confusion on laypeople who are simply trying to make sense of the endless contradictions to their Catholic Faith being presented to them as "how it's done now" -- often justified by referring to the current Code of Canon Law.  It offends traditional Catholic sensibilities.  Just as being put in the position where one has to decide if they submit to the post-Conciliar heirarchy in all things(?), some things(?), nothing(?) offends and goes against Catholic sensibilities.  No good Catholic asked to be put in this position.  As for the issue of veiling, I care about it from the vantage point of how the massive unveiling of women in Church offends God and what spiritual implications this holds for women and men and the Church as a whole.  But, at this point, perhaps the hour is too late and only God can set things back aright.
 
The following users thanked this post: Blue Violet

Offline Lydia Purpuraria

  • Mary Garden
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2665
  • Thanked: 755 times
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #124 on: November 29, 2015, 10:07:30 AM »
Only God can change teaching from scripture or overrule it.  Only the authority that laid down the law can change the law.  This was the theme of our Sermon this week.

Yes, but who does He do that through?  He doesn't  come down here and say, "Hey, I want this to mean something different now."  Someone has to reinterpret for us.  Look at circumcision.  That was a law from the old order.  Now it's not.  God didn't come down and say, "Don't do this anymore."  Someone had to decide that this is the way God wants it now and implement it throughout the Church.

Can you explain or clarify a little more what you mean here?  I'm not sure that it's apt because with circumcision, Sts Peter and Paul were working out the Church teaching itself (and this was still part of divine revelation that Church teaching is derived from).  After them, and with the end of divine revelation, the later Popes and Church heirarchy are to safeguard and preserve these teachings, not reinterpret them.  But, maybe I'm just not understanding your point, hence my hopes you'd clarify.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 08:32:55 AM by Lydia Purpuraria »
 

Offline Kaesekopf

  • Enkindle in us the virtues of humility and patience So we too may obediently do your will faithfully.
  • Oberst
  • Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 20514
  • Thanked: 6160 times
    • Suscipe Domine
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #125 on: November 29, 2015, 12:48:11 PM »
Canon law does not need to cover everything in the church.  You can be bound by Canon law and other sorts of law. 

Just because Canon law doesn't say anything about veiling doesnt mean theres not an obligation. 

Heck, veiling wasnt even canonically a law until 1917. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.
 

Offline lauermar

  • "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night!" from 'All About Eve' (1950).
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1133
  • Thanked: 296 times
  • Baby Boomer
  • Religion: Traditional Diocesan Catholic
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #126 on: December 01, 2015, 12:25:42 AM »
I veil if I have to go to a Novus Ordo (usually for a funeral). People think I'm strange, but the presence of the Blessed Sacrament is more important than the opinions of my half-practicing family and acquaintances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At a Novus Ordo, I usually wear a hat to balance obedience with not standing out.  I like vintage hats, and it's a fun opportunity to wear them.  :)

Ditto, OC! I do that too.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 12:27:38 AM by lauermar »
"I am not a pessimist. I am not an optimist. I am a realist." Father Malachi Martin (1921-1999)
 
The following users thanked this post: OCLittleFlower

Offline Lydia Purpuraria

  • Mary Garden
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2665
  • Thanked: 755 times
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #127 on: December 01, 2015, 05:20:04 PM »
aquinas138, I was re-reading a little of the thread and I think I was talking past you a bit in my last (somewhat rambling) post -- so I'd like to apologize to you for that.  I should have re-read and focused my thoughts prior to replying.

 

Offline VeraeFidei

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2353
  • Thanked: 241 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #128 on: December 06, 2015, 07:24:24 PM »
Yes the '83 Code does abrogate the 1917 law of  head covering for women.
Again:

"Can. 6 §1. When this Code takes force, the following are abrogated:
  1º the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917"

1983 Code ABROGATES 1917.

1917 calls for woman to cover their heads whilst pubically worshiping.
1983 abrogates that 1917 law.
Does it also nullify the words of Saint Paul?
No.
St Paul did not promulgate Canon Law.
A higher authority did.
God Almighty, help us.
 

Offline aquinas138

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 895
  • Thanked: 808 times
  • Māran etraḥam 'lay!
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #129 on: December 07, 2015, 08:53:17 AM »
aquinas138, I was re-reading a little of the thread and I think I was talking past you a bit in my last (somewhat rambling) post -- so I'd like to apologize to you for that.  I should have re-read and focused my thoughts prior to replying.

No problem. I agree with you that veiling is important; I disagree that it offends God when women don't. Especially nowadays where it has not been the custom for the vast majority of Catholics for half a century - many women have grown to mature adulthood in that time totally ignorant of the practice.
O unashamed intercessor of Christians, ever loyal advocate before the Creator, do not disregard the prayerful voice of sinners but in your goodness hasten to assist us who trustfully cry out to you: Intercede always, O Mother of God, in behalf of those who honor you!
 
The following users thanked this post: Lydia Purpuraria

Offline Lydia Purpuraria

  • Mary Garden
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2665
  • Thanked: 755 times
Re: Honest Question about Dress codes( warning could be triggering)
« Reply #130 on: December 07, 2015, 10:21:55 AM »
No problem. I agree with you that veiling is important; I disagree that it offends God when women don't. Especially nowadays where it has not been the custom for the vast majority of Catholics for half a century - many women have grown to mature adulthood in that time totally ignorant of the practice.

I agree with you that most women are simply ignorant of the practice and mean no harm - they're just going along with what they've been told (that it's no longer required, no longer a sin) if following the '83 Code.  It wasn't my intention to accuse any individual woman of purposefully sinning or offending God by not veiling.



« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 01:33:20 PM by Lydia Purpuraria »