Author Topic: A few questions about the liturgical day...  (Read 996 times)

Offline Daniel

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2313
  • Thanked: 491 times
A few questions about the liturgical day...
« on: August 11, 2015, 01:51:16 PM »
I'm a little confused on a few things (probably because I don't pray the divine office).  Could somebody help me out?
  • When exactly does the liturgical day begin and end?  Does it end before or after vespers?  And I could be remembering wrong (or maybe I misunderstood entirely) but I recall someone once saying that the day liturgically ends at around 3:00 PM, which doesn't sound right as it seems really early.  Can someone confirm and explain this?

  • Are we supposed to be fasting (and abstaining) according to the liturgical day (i.e. Thursday evening until Friday evening) or according to the secular calendar day (i.e. midnight on Friday morning until midnight on Saturday morning)?  I've always just assumed that we're supposed to do it according to the secular calendar (midnight to midnight), but somebody once said that (at least in regard to fasting on the vigils of feast days) the fast ends when the next liturgical day begins.  Is this true?  And what about Friday abstinence?

  • Related question: I realize that anticipated Masses aren't traditional, but my priest is okay with them because the 1983 code allows for them, and because the evening is liturgically part of the following day.  I generally don't go to the anticipated Mass but this Friday night my parish is having its high Mass for the feast of the Assumption and I'll probably be going to that.  I'm wondering, since we're supposed to fast on the vigil of the feast of the Assumption, then when does the fast end?  Can I eat after the Mass, since it's liturgically no longer the vigil?  And if so, can I eat meat (since it's liturgically no longer Friday)?

  • What does this imply in regard to the Lord's day (and holy days of obligation)?  I always do my chores on Saturday, and I am often still doing chores into the evening.  Is this okay?  Or is Saturday evening part of the Lord's day?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 01:54:30 PM by Daniel »
 

Offline Kaesekopf

  • Enkindle in us the virtues of humility and patience So we too may obediently do your will faithfully.
  • Oberst
  • Major
  • *****
  • Posts: 20500
  • Thanked: 6129 times
    • Suscipe Domine
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: A few questions about the liturgical day...
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2015, 02:02:40 PM »
1)  :lol:  Good luck.  Generally, it seems a liturgical day is longer than a 24 hour period.  Begins with I Vespers (First Vespers) the day prior, which I think can be said/anticipated as early as at 12:00pm/Noon.  The day liturgically ends, I would say, at the end of the calendar day.

2)  I fast according to the calendar day, not the liturgical day. 

3)  I would not eat meat on a Friday during the calendar hours. 

4)  I would say Saturday evening would still be "free time" and not strictly the "Sabbath" day/Lord's Day.

To only answer about half your questions with no source whatsoever.  :lol:
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.
 
The following users thanked this post: Daniel

Offline Arun

  • Господи Ісусе Христе Сыне Божїй помилѹй м
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 6103
  • Thanked: 1377 times
  • Religion: Catholic Forever Forever Catholic
Re: A few questions about the liturgical day...
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2015, 05:30:18 PM »
1) yeah i've always heard Vespers.

2) you fast according to the clock and calendar, not the liturgical day

3) i'd always been advised, again, to fast/abstain according to the clock and calendar

4) your fine to do your chores on Saturday night


SIT TIBI COPIA
SOT SAPIENCIA
FORMAQUE DETUR
INQUINAT OMNIA SOLA
SUPERBIA SICOMETETUR

Never lose Hope... Take a deep breath and have a beer.

Mother Aubert Pray For Us!



vsay ego sudba V rukah Gospodnih
 
The following users thanked this post: Daniel

Offline VeraeFidei

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2350
  • Thanked: 238 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: A few questions about the liturgical day...
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 05:18:20 PM »
I'm a little confused on a few things (probably because I don't pray the divine office).  Could somebody help me out?
  • When exactly does the liturgical day begin and end?  Does it end before or after vespers?  And I could be remembering wrong (or maybe I misunderstood entirely) but I recall someone once saying that the day liturgically ends at around 3:00 PM, which doesn't sound right as it seems really early.  Can someone confirm and explain this?
It depends upon the rank of the day. A standard day begins with Vespers the evening prior and concludes with the Office of None the day of, at 3pm as you say. Feasts (which were once, and in theory should be, much rarer than they are) are special and thus have an extra Office, II Vespers



[/li][li]Are we supposed to be fasting (and abstaining) according to the liturgical day (i.e. Thursday evening until Friday evening) or according to the secular calendar day (i.e. midnight on Friday morning until midnight on Saturday morning)?  I've always just assumed that we're supposed to do it according to the secular calendar (midnight to midnight), but somebody once said that (at least in regard to fasting on the vigils of feast days) the fast ends when the next liturgical day begins.  Is this true?  And what about Friday abstinence?
You fast according to the calendar day - that is how it has been done. Maybe HK can chime in on whether this was different in ancient times, but fasting and abstinence go by the calendar day.



[/li][li]Related question: I realize that anticipated Masses aren't traditional, but my priest is okay with them because the 1983 code allows for them, and because the evening is liturgically part of the following day.  I generally don't go to the anticipated Mass but this Friday night my parish is having its high Mass for the feast of the Assumption and I'll probably be going to that.  I'm wondering, since we're supposed to fast on the vigil of the feast of the Assumption, then when does the fast end?  Can I eat after the Mass, since it's liturgically no longer the vigil?  And if so, can I eat meat (since it's liturgically no longer Friday)?
No, you cannot - if you are observing the fast, it goes until midnight.



[/li][li]What does this imply in regard to the Lord's day (and holy days of obligation)?  I always do my chores on Saturday, and I am often still doing chores into the evening.  Is this okay?  Or is Saturday evening part of the Lord's day?[/li]
[/list]
Same as above - fasting and abstinence and other rules governing what you can do and not do go by the calendar day. Slave away until bedtime on Saturday!
 
The following users thanked this post: Daniel

Offline Daniel

  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 2313
  • Thanked: 491 times
Re: A few questions about the liturgical day...
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2015, 04:55:09 PM »
Okay, thanks.

Just wondering, does anyone happen to know why the fasting and the Sunday rest are based on the calendar day rather than the liturgical day?  Is it just for practical reasons, or is there some theological or liturgical reason behind it?
 

Offline jovan66102

  • La foi Catholique d'abord! La mort l'Islam!
  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 921
  • Thanked: 374 times
  • La foi Catholique d'abord! La mort l'Islam!
    • Musings of an Old Curmudgeon
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: A few questions about the liturgical day...
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2015, 03:42:24 AM »
1)  :lol:  Good luck.  Generally, it seems a liturgical day is longer than a 24 hour period.  Begins with I Vespers (First Vespers) the day prior, which I think can be said/anticipated as early as at 12:00pm/Noon.  The day liturgically ends, I would say, at the end of the calendar day.
No. 5 of the General Rubrics promulgated by HH John XXIII:
Quote
Generally, the celebration of a liturgical day runs from Matins to Compline. There are, however, more solemn days, on which the Office begins with 1st Vespers of the preceding day.

No. 143, General Rubrics of the Roman Breviary:
Quote
Matins, for a just cause, may be anticipated in the hours after noon of the preceding day, but not before two o'clock in the afternoon.
Jovan-Marya Weismiller, T.O.Carm.

Vive le Christ-roi! Vive le roi, Louis XX!
Deum timete, regem honorificate.
Kansan by birth! Albertan by choice! Jayhawk by the Grace of God!
Qui me amat, amet et canem meum. (Who loves me will love my dog also.) St Bernard of Clairvaux
https://musingsofanoldcurmudgeon.blogspot.com/