Author Topic: Life Begins At Conception?  (Read 4311 times)

Offline VeraeFidei

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Re: Life Begins At Conception?
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2015, 05:09:17 PM »
If I recall correctly - it has been a few years since I came across this - Saint Augustine posited as a possibility that all the souls of all mankind were created "in the beginning."

I think he ends up not siding toward that opinion later on, but it is interesting nonetheless.
 

Offline Gardener

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Re: Life Begins At Conception?
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2015, 06:53:13 PM »
If I recall correctly - it has been a few years since I came across this - Saint Augustine posited as a possibility that all the souls of all mankind were created "in the beginning."

I think he ends up not siding toward that opinion later on, but it is interesting nonetheless.

I believe the Mormons hold, or at least originally held this position. This was one of the reasons for polygamy (to form bodies for souls).

Sure you're not thinking of Origen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-existence#Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traducianism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism_%28soul%29
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Offline Non Nobis

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Re: Life Begins At Conception?
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2015, 02:26:17 AM »
I mean, we DO celebrate the Immaculate Conception. 

So I think that ensoulment occurs at conception. 

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Yes, I thought of this, and likewise for the conception of Christ in Mary's womb. They both were rational and sinless at conception, and so must have had a soul.

However in another thread  Quaremerepulisti responded that the case with Jesus and Mary might be different (maybe because they were without Original Sin).

I'll let  Quaremerepulisti explain further if he wishes.
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[Job  38:1-5]  Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said: [2] Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words? [3] Gird up thy loins like a man: I will ask thee, and answer thou me. [4] Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth? tell me if thou hast understanding. [5] Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
 

Offline OCLittleFlower

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Re: Life Begins At Conception?
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2015, 05:01:40 AM »
Question about ensoulment:

Obviously identical twins each have their own soul, yet they were once a single embryo.  How does that work?  Does the Lord know that they will eventually be two and give them two souls?  Is another soul created at the time of the splitting?  Does ensoulment happen after the split?
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Offline Daniel

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Re: Life Begins At Conception?
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2015, 11:16:50 AM »
I mean, we DO celebrate the Immaculate Conception. 

So I think that ensoulment occurs at conception. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Yes, I thought of this, and likewise for the conception of Christ in Mary's womb. They both were rational and sinless at conception, and so must have had a soul.

However in another thread  Quaremerepulisti responded that the case with Jesus and Mary might be different (maybe because they were without Original Sin).

I'll let  Quaremerepulisti explain further if he wishes.
Adam (and presumably Eve) was also given a soul as soon as his body was formed, but I suppose that could also be an exception since he was also without original sin.


Question about ensoulment:

Obviously identical twins each have their own soul, yet they were once a single embryo.  How does that work?  Does the Lord know that they will eventually be two and give them two souls?  Is another soul created at the time of the splitting?  Does ensoulment happen after the split?
My guess would be that since every individual has its own soul, then the embryo prior to the splitting would have a soul (only one soul), but as soon as it splits into two individuals then the second individual would immediately be given a soul.  And perhaps the second soul is immediately infused with all knowledge that was naturally acquired by the first soul, so that no acquired knowledge is lost.  (Although that might not be necessary, since as far as I know, at that point the sensory organs have not developed enough to have even acquired any knowledge.)  But that's all just my personal guess, and I'd be interested in knowing what the traditional theologians/philosophers have taught in regard to this.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 11:20:04 AM by Daniel »
 
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Offline VeraeFidei

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Re: Life Begins At Conception?
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 12:21:42 PM »
If I recall correctly - it has been a few years since I came across this - Saint Augustine posited as a possibility that all the souls of all mankind were created "in the beginning."

I think he ends up not siding toward that opinion later on, but it is interesting nonetheless.

I believe the Mormons hold, or at least originally held this position. This was one of the reasons for polygamy (to form bodies for souls).

Sure you're not thinking of Origen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-existence#Christianity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traducianism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism_%28soul%29
Yes, I am sure I am not thinking of Origin, although I believe Origin did adhere to this position.