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The Church Courtyard => Ask a Traditionalist => Topic started by: martin88nyc on December 18, 2018, 01:06:41 PM

Title: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: martin88nyc on December 18, 2018, 01:06:41 PM
Which of these two do you prefer?
What are the differences?
Is the new Friday prayer for the Jews replaced in Baronius version?
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Kaesekopf on December 18, 2018, 02:25:02 PM
Angelus is the superior one. 
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: martin88nyc on December 18, 2018, 03:20:09 PM
I was told the new BP missal is a little bigger than angelus and has a bigger font. Also there are additional feasts celebrated in England, Scotland, USA and Australia/Asia
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Acolyte on December 18, 2018, 03:20:25 PM
Yes, the Angelus is a good one. The Baronius is way too thick and hard to handle.

Sent from my LM-X210VPP using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Gardener on December 18, 2018, 05:09:04 PM
Angelus is better.

My wife has Baronius. It’s too thick and unwieldy.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Der Polka-König on December 18, 2018, 05:17:23 PM
I might not be the best person to answer the question, as I almost never assist at Mass from in the pews, but I own the Baronius and have looked through friends' copies of the Angelus a fair amount.

Regarding the Baronius: It does have propers for some of the main Anglophone regions -- England & Wales, Scotland, USA, and Australasia. That is a nice feature, but in the USA, we only actually have 5 feasts that are not on the General Roman Calendar (O.L. Guadalupe, St Peter Claver, Sts Isaac Jogues, John de Brebeuf, et alii., St Isidore the Farmer, and St Frances Xavier Cabrini). Holy Week is entirely according to Summorum Pontificum -- all post-55, with Benedict's revision of the Oratio pro Conversione Iudćorum. It does have excerpts from the Kyriale in back (Asperges/Vidi; Masses I, IV, VIII, IX, XI, XVII, and XVIII; Credo I-IV). The font might be a little larger, but not substantially. The book is big, almost too big to really be practical, but mostly because they tried to jam too much content into it, in my opinion.

Although in general I highly recommend Baronius Press books, I would prefer the Angelus Press edition over theirs as an everyday hand missal, primarily because of the bulkiness of the former.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Prayerful on December 19, 2018, 01:04:48 PM
The Baronius (and I think the Angelus) both derive the Daily Roman Missal of 1948, edited by Dr Sylvester Juergens, Regina Press, which managed to have all the necessary content for a daily missal, readable font and not be too big. The Angelus Press missal, although the binding is more basic than the '48 original and Baronius, is far closer to that. Now the Baronius is an excellent missal, but a bit too big.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Kreuzritter on December 20, 2018, 06:09:02 AM
If you don't mind grabbing a hand-out during Holy Week.

(https://www.traditionalcatholicpublishing.com/images/product/CC-46.jpg)
(https://hughosb.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/img_0374.jpg?w=513&h=876)
(https://hughosb.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/img_0375.jpg?w=1100)
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: GloriaPatri on December 20, 2018, 09:04:38 AM
I have to agree with Kreuzritter. The Saint Andrew Daily Missal was my go-to for Mass, and I found it to be an excellent aid for keeping up with Father as he celebrated.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Maximilian on December 20, 2018, 02:20:42 PM

 Now the Baronius is an excellent missal, but a bit too big.

I'm not familiar with the Baronius specifically, but in general the problem with some reprints that makes them too big is that they use lower quality paper that is too thick, as opposed to classic Bible paper. The reprints of the Fr. Lasance missal are like that. They're almost too big to hold in one hand, and the paper is a plain white paper rather than the onion-skin paper that is traditional.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Jacob on December 20, 2018, 07:40:20 PM
I have a Baronius.  The paper is nice thin Bible paper.  I agree with those who think the missal is thick.  The Baronius is hefty, but I am able to hold it in one hand without issue.  I haven't handled an Angelus ever.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Gardener on December 22, 2018, 04:35:30 PM

 Now the Baronius is an excellent missal, but a bit too big.

I'm not familiar with the Baronius specifically, but in general the problem with some reprints that makes them too big is that they use lower quality paper that is too thick, as opposed to classic Bible paper. The reprints of the Fr. Lasance missal are like that. They're almost too big to hold in one hand, and the paper is a plain white paper rather than the onion-skin paper that is traditional.

I know a couple who runs a Catholic paper (yes, as in, paper and not a blog: http://www.oremuspress.com/) . Speaking with the wife the other day, she said most of the old printing presses which were used for the thin paper are now in India and so this is why stuff printed in the US is using different paper. They have been given an old press and are working on getting it going for printing old-style holy cards, etc.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: martin88nyc on December 26, 2018, 11:57:55 AM
Here are the dimensions:
Angelus: 6.75 × 4.25 × 1.25 in

Baronius: 7.375 × 4.75 × 2.3125 in

From this I deduce Baronius has larger font. Is that true?
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: martin88nyc on December 27, 2018, 05:00:44 PM
Here are the dimensions:
Angelus: 6.75 × 4.25 × 1.25 in

Baronius: 7.375 × 4.75 × 2.3125 in

From this I deduce Baronius has larger font. Is that true?
could anyone confirm this?
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Gardener on December 27, 2018, 05:01:49 PM
Here are the dimensions:
Angelus: 6.75 × 4.25 × 1.25 in

Baronius: 7.375 × 4.75 × 2.3125 in

From this I deduce Baronius has larger font. Is that true?
could anyone confirm this?

Send me a PM to remind me and I'll pull both out tonight and do some side-by-side pictures for you.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Miriam_M on December 27, 2018, 10:33:51 PM
Here are the dimensions:
Angelus: 6.75 × 4.25 × 1.25 in

Baronius: 7.375 × 4.75 × 2.3125 in

From this I deduce Baronius has larger font. Is that true?
could anyone confirm this?

Send me a PM to remind me and I'll pull both out tonight and do some side-by-side pictures for you.

Hopefully, you'll post that and not just PM it, even with a PM'ed reminder.
(Some others of us are also interested.)
 ;)
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Gardener on December 27, 2018, 11:23:22 PM
yeah, I'll post up here. Can't attach pics on PMs (annoying! but understandable)
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: martin88nyc on December 27, 2018, 11:24:53 PM
Here are the dimensions:
Angelus: 6.75 × 4.25 × 1.25 in

Baronius: 7.375 × 4.75 × 2.3125 in

From this I deduce Baronius has larger font. Is that true?
could anyone confirm this?

Send me a PM to remind me and I'll pull both out tonight and do some side-by-side pictures for you.

Hopefully, you'll post that and not just PM it, even with a PM'ed reminder.
(Some others of us are also interested.)
 ;)
:) I notice that Baronius is easier to read.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Gardener on December 28, 2018, 01:47:22 AM
Let's see if this works:
(click album link; once in album, click on pics to zoom.)
https://imgur.com/a/JbIJgiJ

I tried to get some propers, prefaces, canon, chant notation, and how big they are in the hand compared to each other.

My preference is the Angelus. It seems to have less flipping around to get to parts and generally lays in the hand better.

However, if you are the type of person who uses holy cards to mark pages, the Baronius (being stiffer due to smaller size) might be more preferable.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Innocent Smith on December 28, 2018, 08:06:35 AM
Of the two, Angelus is better if only for the notes within the Ordinary of the Mass which explain what is going on. Parsimonious, yet full of meaning. I dare say you wouldn't need to read a book on the Mass if you are of reasonable intelligence after studying with that Missal.

I own the Angelus and have given the Baronius as a gift. But it would have to be an emergency for me to haul the Angelus to Mass. Much better to use a slim St. Andrew from the late '50s or early '60s without Vespers. And if you really want luxury and convenience get a Sunday Missal and use the slim St. Andrew for other days of the week.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Prayerful on December 28, 2018, 11:13:54 AM
Here are the dimensions:
Angelus: 6.75 × 4.25 × 1.25 in

Baronius: 7.375 × 4.75 × 2.3125 in

From this I deduce Baronius has larger font. Is that true?
could anyone confirm this?

Send me a PM to remind me and I'll pull both out tonight and do some side-by-side pictures for you.

Font nearly identical or the same. Angelus has narrower margins.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Stu Cool on December 28, 2018, 11:17:03 AM
Let's see if this works:
(click album link; once in album, click on pics to zoom.)
https://imgur.com/a/JbIJgiJ

I tried to get some propers, prefaces, canon, chant notation, and how big they are in the hand compared to each other.

My preference is the Angelus. It seems to have less flipping around to get to parts and generally lays in the hand better.

However, if you are the type of person who uses holy cards to mark pages, the Baronius (being stiffer due to smaller size) might be more preferable.

Shout out to James' book!
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: martin88nyc on December 28, 2018, 11:19:09 AM
Let's see if this works:
(click album link; once in album, click on pics to zoom.)
https://imgur.com/a/JbIJgiJ

I tried to get some propers, prefaces, canon, chant notation, and how big they are in the hand compared to each other.

My preference is the Angelus. It seems to have less flipping around to get to parts and generally lays in the hand better.

However, if you are the type of person who uses holy cards to mark pages, the Baronius (being stiffer due to smaller size) might be more preferable.
Thank you for the effort. But you know Baronius now makes missals slightly larger than Angelus so the font is definatelly bigger.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Jacob on December 28, 2018, 12:54:02 PM
It does?  When did it start doing that?
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Gardener on December 28, 2018, 01:17:11 PM

Thank you for the effort. But you know Baronius now makes missals slightly larger than Angelus so the font is definatelly bigger.

Not necessarily.

I wasn't aware their missals were now bigger w/ outside dimensions until you countered (hence why I provided measurements in one of the pics), so I looked at their page. There, one can see the inside:
https://www.baroniuspress.com/images/Daily_Missal_browsing/283.html (just flip to "next page" at bottom of browser to get an idea of inside).

It looks to me like they took their previous printing size and just stuck it in a larger overall missal, resulting in larger margins. One also still has the problem of the thickness of their missal (really affects how it handles in the hand) along with the formatting issues, unless they changed the format of things like preface locations.

However, all of this is personal preference. My wife really likes her Baronius and I'd rather go without than ever touch it.  ::)
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: martin88nyc on December 28, 2018, 02:28:15 PM
Thank you Gardener. I am going to cal Baronius and ask if it is still the same size of text
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Prayerful on December 29, 2018, 12:43:56 PM

Thank you for the effort. But you know Baronius now makes missals slightly larger than Angelus so the font is definatelly bigger.

Not necessarily.

I wasn't aware their missals were now bigger w/ outside dimensions until you countered (hence why I provided measurements in one of the pics), so I looked at their page. There, one can see the inside:
https://www.baroniuspress.com/images/Daily_Missal_browsing/283.html (just flip to "next page" at bottom of browser to get an idea of inside).

It looks to me like they took their previous printing size and just stuck it in a larger overall missal, resulting in larger margins. One also still has the problem of the thickness of their missal (really affects how it handles in the hand) along with the formatting issues, unless they changed the format of things like preface locations.

However, all of this is personal preference. My wife really likes her Baronius and I'd rather go without than ever touch it.  ::)

The '48 - '62 Ideal Missal original (and source of 1-3) has the smallest headings and margins, tightest spacing, identical sized Latin and English, with the Angelus having somewhat larger margins, nearly identical Latin-English font, and the Baronius having the widest margins and more generous spacing, with overly small Latin font and much larger English font (which made following the Mass harder to follow as priest and server will be using the Latin I'm trying to read from the Baronius).

(https://i.imgur.com/TRaKOetl.jpg)

1. Ideal Missal, 1948,, 2. Angelus Missal, 2004, 3. Baronius Missal, 2015 4. St Andrew's Missal, 1940-1947.

The St Andrew's Missal is one I prefer to them all simply for the detailed explanation for each Sunday which fully integrates explanation of the Office for that day, plus the historical and scriptural setting for each part of the liturgical year.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Stefano on January 03, 2019, 08:46:51 AM
I have two different editions of the Baronius, the 2014 and the 2017. The latter of the two is much smaller in width and more codusive to single hand holding. I plan on getting a St. Andrews Missal now, too, for the pre-1955 Holy Week. Unless there is another Missal that someone here would recommend in place of the St. Andrew's?
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: martin88nyc on January 03, 2019, 09:04:24 AM
I have two different editions of the Baronius, the 2014 and the 2017. The latter of the two is much smaller in width and more codusive to single hand holding. I plan on getting a St. Andrews Missal now, too, for the pre-1955 Holy Week. Unless there is another Missal that someone here would recommend in place of the St. Andrew's?
There is Fr. Lasance's The New Roman Missal.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Stefano on January 03, 2019, 09:16:48 AM
I have two different editions of the Baronius, the 2014 and the 2017. The latter of the two is much smaller in width and more codusive to single hand holding. I plan on getting a St. Andrews Missal now, too, for the pre-1955 Holy Week. Unless there is another Missal that someone here would recommend in place of the St. Andrew's?
There is Fr. Lasance's The New Roman Missal.

I was previously unaware of this Missal! This sounds excellent. I shall have to try and track down a copy in the Great White North (more than $100 USD with shipping from the Fraternity!)
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: martin88nyc on January 03, 2019, 09:43:31 AM
I have two different editions of the Baronius, the 2014 and the 2017. The latter of the two is much smaller in width and more codusive to single hand holding. I plan on getting a St. Andrews Missal now, too, for the pre-1955 Holy Week. Unless there is another Missal that someone here would recommend in place of the St. Andrew's?
There is Fr. Lasance's The New Roman Missal.

I was previously unaware of this Missal! This sounds excellent. I shall have to try and track down a copy in the Great White North (more than $100 USD with shipping from the Fraternity!)
Cannot be. Seriously? We pay less for packages from Europe.
Title: Re: Angelus vs Baronius Missal
Post by: Stefano on January 03, 2019, 10:05:25 AM
I have two different editions of the Baronius, the 2014 and the 2017. The latter of the two is much smaller in width and more codusive to single hand holding. I plan on getting a St. Andrews Missal now, too, for the pre-1955 Holy Week. Unless there is another Missal that someone here would recommend in place of the St. Andrew's?
There is Fr. Lasance's The New Roman Missal.

I was previously unaware of this Missal! This sounds excellent. I shall have to try and track down a copy in the Great White North (more than $100 USD with shipping from the Fraternity!)
Cannot be. Seriously? We pay less for packages from Europe.

Unless it is the case that the refund the additional shipping costs (many companies do this), it was to be $37 USD for postage alone.