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General Catholic Discussion / Re: Happy Feast of the Immaculate Conception
« Last post by Gardener on December 08, 2019, 12:05:04 PM »
Happy Feast Day.
Traditional Catholic Discussion / Re: The heresy of sedeprivationism
« Last post by Arvinger on December 08, 2019, 11:25:59 AM »
You misunderstand the teaching of Vatican I, as well as sedeprivationism. What the Catholic definitions on the prerogatives of the Papacy refer to is the power of the office rather than that of a specific individual. Sedeprivationism agrees that the office of the Pope has all prerogatives named in Pastor Aeternus, but whether a specific individual is fit to excercise that power is another matter. So, what Vatican I talks about is the power of the office, while the claims of sedeprivationism are in regard to the situation of specific individuals (who - according t osedeprivationism - formally do not occupy the office at all, hence can't excercise its power) rather than the office itself, prerogatives associated with which are intact.
General Information / Re: Forum improvements?
« Last post by Lynne on December 08, 2019, 11:24:09 AM »

My portal to the forum is basically to click on the "Show unread since last visit". Whatever appears I tend to look down the list and contribute to the ones that I am interested in. I am not really focused on which area/room I am in just in the thread topic.

If I see that the topic has been introduced/replied to by certain members I am more likely to contribute to it. Contrariwise if the person is on my banned list or somebody who posts incessantly with walls of text I am unlikely to read the topic.

I even have links which link to certain posters to see what they have been posting and to look at their recent posts. If they have said something interesting "anywhere" on "any" thread I will jump into the thread at that point and read the comment in context and then maybe contribute to the thread.  Sometimes these threads are several day/weeks/months and even years old. It must seem a bit strange when one of these thread comes back from the dead and reappears in the latest posts.

Unfortunately, the "Show last unread" link doesn't really show you everything. I find that I also have to click on the link below it too...
General Catholic Discussion / Re: Happy Feast of the Immaculate Conception
« Last post by Michael Wilson on December 08, 2019, 11:05:04 AM »
Happy Feastday!
General Information / Re: Forum improvements?
« Last post by Michael Wilson on December 08, 2019, 11:03:46 AM »
Healthy diet: how many people eat nothing but junk all day long; when I worked at a convenience store of a Gas station, I saw people come in and buy soda pop; candy bars; & other snacks; they were all sugar addicts. Many people don't know how to eat healthy.
I donít know about that KR. I had a Jewish patient once who Iíd discuss Jewish cosmology with between exercises, besides Jewish recipes.  She pretty much described their worldview like that picture, except maybe for water being above the stars.   ;).

Yes, but what does the view of a 21st century Jewish lady with all the metaphysical sophistication of a chemist have to do with the wisdom of ancient Israel?

You're dealing with a world view in which everything is continuously interwoven, concrete and living symbol, like a fractal of flowers unfolding from themselves. If you don't understand this, consider "the Word". God creates through speaking words, symbols of things. But the letters and sounds are themselves symbolic of powers and essences. However, the sounds are these powers again. But again the Word is the Wisdom of God, and Wisdom operates through thought, and thought through words, and these words shape the cosmos, the metaphorical book of creation, just as they shape the written book. Then you take the first chapters of Genesis and its cosmos and see how they reveal the structure and ritual of the Solomonic Temple, but the Temple reflects the structure of Heavenly temple, up to the throne of God in the Holy of Holies, seated upon the Cherubim. And again the story of these chapters of Genesis can be seen as a narrative of the building of the Temple and its subsequent history, right up to the exile of the Jews.

It is just like the Sacraments. We wash in water and are washed in Christ's blood; we are submerged and lifted out as we symbolically die and rise again, and we mentally die to the world and enter into the Church's life, but we also really undergo a kind of spiritual death and rebirth in a new order of being. The Eucharist, it's bread and wine, and leaving Thomistic babble aside, you can touch it, taste it, break it apart and materially encounter bread and wine, but that bread and wine is really the flesh and blood of Christ. All attempts to explain the meaning and reality of this in philosophies increasingly alien to the Hebrew mind, where the Platonic is superior to the Aristotelian and the dominant modern one can't even allow it,  are flawed and futile.

There is much though in our own heliocentric and even Hawking-esque view of the cosmos that is rightfully founded on the natural philosophy and cosmology of the ancients, whether from Athens or Jerusalem.  SL Jaki, SJ in The Savior of Science , and W Wallace, OP in The Modeling of Nature, go into this.   Which you may find interesting reads.

It breaks down at the most basic level when to Hawking's view a star is a dead intelligible object consisting of fundamental physical particles.
Traditional Catholic Discussion / The heresy of sedeprivationism
« Last post by Hugues de Payns on December 08, 2019, 09:00:56 AM »
People sincerely seeking the Catholic Church can meet with such here a statement - the thesis of Cassiciacum is a complete novelty invented by Guerard des Lauriers at the end of '70s in "Cahiers de Cassiciacum" ("Notebooks from Cassiciacum") where it got its name, to explain the current situation related to the Catholic Church, and exactly with the Papacy, and that only the newly elected Pope can judge it, that it poses (this thesis) a topic for theological discussion and one can profess it if someone wants because the Pope has not yet spoken about it, and that its followers (Guerardians) are Sedevacantists, but not total (not totalists), that this is a theological dispute like for example between the Jesuits and the Dominicans but everything happens in the same, one Catholic Church. Well, that is one big lie !

sedeprivationism is one great heresy. The heresy of sedeprivationism was condemned by the Catholic Church twice, simply the name was given for it - "the thesis of Cassiciacum".


"Sedes" from Latin means throne, capital, "Privatio" from Latin means deprivation. sedeprivationism means that the Roman See is filled, but the Pope is deprived of all power ("the pope only materially, but not formally"). So the pope is physically, materially, but he hath no power because he is a heretic. Such assumption is contrary to the teaching of the Catholic Church.

The heresy of the sedeprivationism twice condemned by the Catholic Church.

The Bull of Pope Paul IV from 1559 Cum Ex Apostolatus

"[6] If whenever at any time it will turn out that... Roman Priest will depart from the Catholic faith, or will fall into some heresy before accepting the papacy, an accepting accomplished even with unanimous consent of all Cardinals is non-existent, invalid and lacking; not even can it be said, that it will become valid, or it can not be treated in any way as lawful and that it would not be thought, that it gives to those some administration power or in spiritual matters or earthly but all said, made, administered by them is deprived of all power and imposes absolutely no power or laws over anyone. And let such people through this very fact (eo ipso) and without the required judgment should be deprived of all dignity, position, honors, power or laws over anyone."

Vatican Council (1870) - Session IV, Dogmatic Constitution PASTOR AETERNUS     
"So if someone would speak; (a) that the Bishop of Rome possesses only the office of supervising or directing, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction in the whole Church, not only in matters of faith and morality, but also in matters concerning discipline and governance of the Church scattered all over the world; (b) or that he possesses the greater part and not all the fullness of that supreme power; (c) or that this his power is not ordinary and direct, both concerning all and every of the Churches, as well as toward all and each of the Pastors and the faithful - let him be anathema."

This is the dogma of Faith. Thus, the lie is as boldly sedeprivationists claim that the above condemnations are a matter of discipline.

At the same time, it is the exclusion by the Catholic Church of sedeprivationism (as a heresy) from the definition of "Sede Vacante".

Did Pope Paul IV and the First Vatican Council take into consideration the sede - privationism in their condemnations of it as a variant of Sede Vacante ?
Does the definition of "Sede Vacante" contain in itself the heresy of the sede - privationism ? If not, then the sede - privationism is not a part of the Sede - vacantism, it is not the Sede - vacantism.

Since when the condemnations of heresies by the Catholic Church are theological positions ?

Encyclical of Pope Pius XII "Humani Generis" (1950)

"[20] But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians."

Naming satanists the Popes in any sense is a pure devilry for me, it is abominable and unacceptable as a heresy condemned by the Catholic Church.

General Information / Re: Forum improvements?
« Last post by Gardener on December 08, 2019, 08:37:53 AM »
A few ideas: a conspiracy theory discussion thread, a "Shakespeare"* discussion thread. I am digging me some history plays and a refound interest in Othello and King Lear.
A fitness; wweightlifting; healthy died section.

Healthy died section?

Solely devoted to Jack LaLanne
He is currently an independent priest exclusively offering the true mass?
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