Suscipe Domine Traditional Catholic Forum

The Parish Hall => Arts and Leisure => Topic started by: Bernadette on January 20, 2014, 09:25:13 AM

Title: "Renting" Books
Post by: Bernadette on January 20, 2014, 09:25:13 AM
Has anybody come across this online? I saw it on Google Books: they charge three dollars or so, and you have access to the book for forty-eight hours. I couldn't believe it! I thought this sort of thing had gone out with the Victorian "circulating libraries," where customers paid a subscription to take out books. I'd never pay to rent books: I've been spoiled by free libraries. The idea of having to pay to just borrow a book seems so wrong (even though I'm perfectly okay with aying to borrow movies).

What do you guys think?
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 09:26:03 AM
I would pay to be part of a nice library (think of a public library, but nicer, with newer books, etc).

For only 48 hours though?  Doesn't seem worth it. 
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Lynne on January 20, 2014, 09:31:58 AM
Yeah, 48 hours is way too short. Our town library has rental books (new books by popular authors) but the rental period is for 2 or 3 weeks.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Bernadette on January 20, 2014, 10:04:21 AM
Actually, I was wrong. I just checked and rentals are only for 24 hours. Now that's downright ridiculous.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: maryslittlegarden on January 20, 2014, 10:18:54 AM
Eh, my book rentals come from the library for free. 
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 20, 2014, 01:39:30 PM
I've rented books on my kindle for a month from Amazon. 
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 01:53:42 PM
I've rented books on my kindle for a month from Amazon.

Textbooks?  Or?  How come?
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 20, 2014, 01:56:35 PM
I've rented books on my kindle for a month from Amazon.

Textbooks?  Or?  How come?

Yeah, it was an academic work.  I only needed it for a paper and it was too expensive to buy.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 20, 2014, 02:06:55 PM
I could never just rent a book, even if the rental period was long enough to read the entire thing. I like to write in my books, dog-ear the pages, etc.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 20, 2014, 02:08:10 PM
I could never just rent a book, even if the rental period was long enough to read the entire thing. I like to write in my books, dog-ear the pages, etc.

You wouldn't like an e-reader then.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 20, 2014, 02:10:08 PM
Yeah, I super don't like them. I also like being able to flip quickly back to something I read earlier to compare it to what I just read. You know, "Oh, that symbol (or whatever) popped up earlier in the book, too; let me flip back and find it."
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 02:11:45 PM
Yeah, I super don't like them. I also like being able to flip quickly back to something I read earlier to compare it to what I just read. You know, "Oh, that symbol (or whatever) popped up earlier in the book, too; let me flip back and find it."

Nerd.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 02:11:58 PM
I've rented books on my kindle for a month from Amazon.

Textbooks?  Or?  How come?

Yeah, it was an academic work.  I only needed it for a paper and it was too expensive to buy.

:lol:

That makes sense.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 20, 2014, 02:16:12 PM
Yeah, I super don't like them. I also like being able to flip quickly back to something I read earlier to compare it to what I just read. You know, "Oh, that symbol (or whatever) popped up earlier in the book, too; let me flip back and find it."

Nerd.

I mean, I'm a nerd for a living. You knew that.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 02:17:09 PM
Yeah, I super don't like them. I also like being able to flip quickly back to something I read earlier to compare it to what I just read. You know, "Oh, that symbol (or whatever) popped up earlier in the book, too; let me flip back and find it."

Nerd.

I mean, I'm a nerd for a living. You knew that.

Indeed I did.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 20, 2014, 02:18:59 PM
Yeah, I super don't like them. I also like being able to flip quickly back to something I read earlier to compare it to what I just read. You know, "Oh, that symbol (or whatever) popped up earlier in the book, too; let me flip back and find it."

I agree with you for non-fiction or academic reading.  The one thing I use an e-reader for is lighter fiction. 
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Lynne on January 20, 2014, 02:21:25 PM
I could never just rent a book, even if the rental period was long enough to read the entire thing. I like to write in my books, dog-ear the pages, etc.

You can highlight passages and make notes that are stored in the cloud. You can make as many bookmarks as you like...They're just virtual...   :)
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 20, 2014, 02:22:29 PM
I could never just rent a book, even if the rental period was long enough to read the entire thing. I like to write in my books, dog-ear the pages, etc.

You can highlight passages and make notes that are stored in the cloud. You can make as many bookmarks as you like...They're just virtual...   :)

The thought makes my blood run cold. *Shudder*
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 02:27:40 PM
I enjoy the convenience of e-books and e-readers, but I do find myself missing hardcopies/print. 

Which is why Half Price Books is so great......  :D
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Lynne on January 20, 2014, 02:27:48 PM
Penelope:

hahaha You Luddite! ;-)

(should have quoted you)
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 20, 2014, 02:29:07 PM
There's nothing inherently wrong with electronic books.  In fact, having a PDF of a text is much better when working intimately with the text since it is immediately and perfectly searchable.

The physical book is aesthetically pleasing and I think it will remain important for a long, long time, but it's not perfect.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Lynne on January 20, 2014, 02:33:33 PM
I'm a packrat. So are my husband and daughter. Every room in our house has books all over the place.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 02:36:14 PM
I'm a packrat. So are my husband and daughter. Every room in our house has books all over the place.

You make this sound like a bad thing?
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: maryslittlegarden on January 20, 2014, 02:39:10 PM
I've rented books on my kindle for a month from Amazon.

You can borrow books on Amazon for free.  Not sure about text books, though.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: piabee on January 20, 2014, 02:40:19 PM
I could never just rent a book, even if the rental period was long enough to read the entire thing. I like to write in my books, dog-ear the pages, etc.

You wouldn't like an e-reader then.

I am a librarian's daughter and would burn before marking a book, but I love highlighting in my Kindle.

I also like being able to flip quickly back to something I read earlier to compare it to what I just read. You know, "Oh, that symbol (or whatever) popped up earlier in the book, too; let me flip back and find it."

This is trickier on the Kindle but I've usually been able to find stuff using a word search.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 20, 2014, 02:43:10 PM
You didn't mark in your books during college?
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 20, 2014, 02:44:21 PM
I've rented books on my kindle for a month from Amazon.

You can borrow books on Amazon for free.  Not sure about text books, though.

Yeah.  It wasn't a textbook but it was a somewhat expensive, academic text.  I think they charge for renting those since many would not spend $100 or more on a book if they can temporarily rent it.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 20, 2014, 02:45:53 PM
Yeah, I super don't like them. I also like being able to flip quickly back to something I read earlier to compare it to what I just read. You know, "Oh, that symbol (or whatever) popped up earlier in the book, too; let me flip back and find it."

This is me, 100%.  I don't write in my books, but I do love the ease of a physical book when it comes to finding things that were mentioned in earlier chapters.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 20, 2014, 02:47:18 PM
You didn't mark in your books during college?

Gosh no!  My mother would have sensed it, driven to the college, and tanned my hide.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 20, 2014, 02:48:24 PM
You didn't mark in your books during college?

Gosh no!  My mother would have sensed it, driven to the college, and tanned my hide.

You know that books have margins solely so that you can write in them, right?
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 20, 2014, 02:49:44 PM
You didn't mark in your books during college?

Gosh no!  My mother would have sensed it, driven to the college, and tanned my hide.

You know that books have margins solely so that you can write in them, right?

I thought it was for pleasing white space and to prevent text being cut off in case of a booking binding or printing error.  :p
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: piabee on January 20, 2014, 02:57:27 PM
You didn't mark in your books during college?

Nope. If there were specific passages I needed to review I just remembered.

You know that books have margins solely so that you can write in them, right?

Tell that to my dad.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 03:11:26 PM
You didn't mark in your books during college?

Gosh no!  My mother would have sensed it, driven to the college, and tanned my hide.

You know that books have margins solely so that you can write in them, right?

Aren't they for printing tolerances and to ensure no print goes off the page?...
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 20, 2014, 03:53:27 PM
A book without marginalia is a book that has not been thoroughly and deeply loved.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 04:14:41 PM
A book without marginalia is a book that has not been thoroughly and deeply loved.

You can hold your erroneous position, but it won't make you correct. 
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 20, 2014, 05:51:25 PM
A book without marginalia is a book that has not been thoroughly and deeply loved.

 :beer:

And it has not been thoroughly understood.   ;)
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: piabee on January 20, 2014, 05:55:41 PM
I do just fine loving and understanding a book using the author's words and not my own.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 06:12:34 PM
I do just fine loving and understanding a book using the author's words and not my own.

Exactly. 

Why anyone would desecrate a defenseless book is beyond my mind.

God gave us notepad and paper, at best, for taking notes. 
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 20, 2014, 07:28:09 PM
A book without marginalia is a book that has not been thoroughly and deeply loved.

 :beer:

And it has not been thoroughly understood.   ;)

I agree. I was going to say the same, but I didn't want to offend. Your statement probably rings truer than mine, though.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Spooky on January 20, 2014, 07:57:18 PM
On another thread, not too long ago, I was singing the praises of e-books: the convenience etc

And then...

My tablet broke. Both the AC adapter broke AND the USB port on the tablet itself broke. I have no idea how to charge it now.

I never used to write in books because I used to only get books from the library. But with my own books I've been making notes in margins (in pencil). I usually also note the last time I read it.  It's also fun to buy used books and read the notes in the margin. My "Sinner's Guide" as a lot stuff underlined with notes to a certain person with things like "You do this too!" and  "hanging out with boys is a sin!!!"
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Bernadette on January 20, 2014, 08:19:41 PM
It's also fun to buy used books and read the notes in the margin. My "Sinner's Guide" as a lot stuff underlined with notes to a certain person with things like "You do this too!" and  "hanging out with boys is a sin!!!"

I love finding books with marginalia in them!  :) It's one of my favorite things about buying used books (the other is the price, of course). I don't mark in my books anymore, except to underline parts that I find interesting or clever- but I've been highlighting like crazy on my kindle.  :grin:
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 20, 2014, 09:30:13 PM
I do just fine loving and understanding a book using the author's words and not my own.

Exactly. 

Why anyone would desecrate a defenseless book is beyond my mind.

God gave us notepad and paper, at best, for taking notes.

This.  Though I'm not one to write things down when I have the book at hand.  Doesn't make sense to me.  But then, I'm a verbal learner rather than a visual learner or a "learn by doing" sort.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 20, 2014, 10:56:53 PM
It's so you can remember the important things you've read. If I tell my students to trace the use of a symbol throughout a novel, I want them to write down every single time that symbol pops up and then some ideas about why it's important. If I want them to trace a character's development, I need them to come to class with notes prepared so that they know what to say during a discussion. I need them to jot down page numbers so that they can tell the rest of the class where to flip to in order to find the references. If I ask them a question about the novel and tell them to come to class prepared to discuss it the next day, they need to have written down something concrete so that they can easily point everyone to it. Most people can't hold all of this information (particularly specific page numbers or the number of times a symbol is used) in their minds. They have to write things down. Those students who refuse to write anything down are the ones who are unprepared for class and have difficulty participating in the discussions.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Kaesekopf on January 20, 2014, 11:00:11 PM
And you can do all of that far better with a notepad and paper.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Spooky on January 20, 2014, 11:10:11 PM
And you can do all of that far better with a notepad and paper.

Which then becomes lost and eventually tossed in the trash. For me anyway. Much easier to grab the book and look for the highlight.

My grandma was a Fundamentalist Protestant, and the thing that sticks out to me the most was her Bible. Underlines, highlights, notes written in margins about sermons she heard. That book was used.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: per_passionem_eius on January 20, 2014, 11:21:43 PM
The problem with the habit of marking up books is it severely limits the possibility for deep reflection over time.  It's pretty arrogant to think that tiny margin space will be sufficient, or that the rereading of some highlighted passage will always bear the same fruit.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Spooky on January 20, 2014, 11:34:13 PM
The problem with the habit of marking up books is it severely limits the possibility for deep reflection over time.  It's pretty arrogant to think that tiny margin space will be sufficient, or that the rereading of some highlighted passage will always bear the same fruit.

In what way is it "arrogant"?
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: per_passionem_eius on January 20, 2014, 11:43:05 PM
No one can be sufficiently brief to make good enough use of such a tiny notepad as a margin, and only someone who thinks they'll never change (why would they think that unless they thought they were already perfect?) would dare highlight (except with an erasable highlighter, if there were such a thing).
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Spooky on January 20, 2014, 11:54:48 PM
No one can be sufficiently brief to make good enough use of such a tiny notepad as a margin, and only someone who thinks they'll never change (why would they think that unless they thought they were already perfect?) would dare highlight (except with an erasable highlighter, if there were such a thing).

 ??? I don't follow. Why would writing stuff down or highlighting indicate you thought you were perfect?
I read stuff I wrote in the past and chuckle at my naivete. Or come across an old highlight I don't remember making and think "what was I trying to tell myself here?" If anything it would be an aid to growth rather than a hindrance.

Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 20, 2014, 11:58:11 PM
The problem with the habit of marking up books is it severely limits the possibility for deep reflection over time.  It's pretty arrogant to think that tiny margin space will be sufficient, or that the rereading of some highlighted passage will always bear the same fruit.

Marginalia isn't the be all and end all of literary analysis; far from it--it's the first step of deep reflection and analysis. For students, when they begin to write the paper, they should have notes to review so that they know what parts of the book in particular that they want to reference in the paper. Furthermore, no one was suggesting that to write something in the margins the first time you read a book means that this is your absolute and final reflection on the matter. One thing that I'm really enjoying is teaching The Scarlet Letter again. The first time I taught it, I marked my copy of the book up. Now, I'm marking up a second copy. Comparing the two has actually been fruitful in itself. It's interesting to see what I missed the first time that I'm catching now (and vice versa) and how my understanding of the novel deepens with each time that I read it. Likewise, as I've grown in the Faith since I first taught the novel a few years ago, my understanding of the book has changed. Comparing the marginalia in the two copies is allowing me to see these changes. I should go back and put dates in the different copies for future reference.

Also, something that I keep imagining is that as my children grow older (the first one is still in the womb, so we're talking years from now), they'll pick up books from my shelf to read and they'll open up to my margin notes and learn a different side of me than what they see day-to-day: a woman who taught high school before she was anyone's mother, a woman who sits around marking up books as she ponders their content, a woman who thinks deeply about life's big questions, a woman who chuckles as she reads Hawthorne and Fitzgerald and Twain. Children have a difficult time conceptualizing that their parents had lives, jobs, relationships, and deep thoughts about the world prior to the children's arrival in it. I hope my marginalia will one day help me to build a deeper relationship with my children. We'll see.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 21, 2014, 12:02:44 AM
No one can be sufficiently brief to make good enough use of such a tiny notepad as a margin, and only someone who thinks they'll never change (why would they think that unless they thought they were already perfect?) would dare highlight (except with an erasable highlighter, if there were such a thing).

I can be sufficiently brief as to make good use of a margin. I do it almost every day. That doesn't mean that I think that my response to the literature is the most unique, deep, and special thing ever to have been written. It's simply a record of what I was thinking at the time that I read X or Y book. A future reading may well yield different, possibly better, reflections, and those can likewise be marked in the book. Or in another copy of the book. Go to a used book store and buy five copies of your favorite book. Then read one copy a year, marking the margins with your musings. Then compare them. I bet that'd be an interesting exercise.

Erasable highlighters do exist.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: per_passionem_eius on January 21, 2014, 01:21:21 AM
Marking a book makes the book about you.  It makes you something of a co-author.  If you want to note your own thoughts etc., why not use something more suited to that purpose, like a diary?
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Spooky on January 21, 2014, 02:09:32 AM
Marking a book makes the book about you.  It makes you something of a co-author.  If you want to note your own thoughts etc., why not use something more suited to that purpose, like a diary?

Well, if making notations in a book is making yourself the co-author (it's not, but whatever) then a diary is one big narcissism-fest of self aggrandizement. I suspect you're against diaries as well then?

Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 21, 2014, 02:26:14 AM
It's so you can remember the important things you've read. If I tell my students to trace the use of a symbol throughout a novel, I want them to write down every single time that symbol pops up and then some ideas about why it's important. If I want them to trace a character's development, I need them to come to class with notes prepared so that they know what to say during a discussion. I need them to jot down page numbers so that they can tell the rest of the class where to flip to in order to find the references. If I ask them a question about the novel and tell them to come to class prepared to discuss it the next day, they need to have written down something concrete so that they can easily point everyone to it. Most people can't hold all of this information (particularly specific page numbers or the number of times a symbol is used) in their minds. They have to write things down. Those students who refuse to write anything down are the ones who are unprepared for class and have difficulty participating in the discussions.

I'd take notes in class to prove I was paying attention, but I never used them or referred to them -- I certainly never took notes when reading except when it was assigned and, again, never referred to them.

I can almost always find the part of the book I'm looking for quickly, even without the exact page number, just by having read the book recently and knowing what part of the book is about what topic, etc.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 21, 2014, 02:39:22 AM
The problem with the habit of marking up books is it severely limits the possibility for deep reflection over time.  It's pretty arrogant to think that tiny margin space will be sufficient, or that the rereading of some highlighted passage will always bear the same fruit.

Marginalia isn't the be all and end all of literary analysis; far from it--it's the first step of deep reflection and analysis. For students, when they begin to write the paper, they should have notes to review so that they know what parts of the book in particular that they want to reference in the paper.

I know, personally, for my own writing process or whatever you want to call it, that aspects of a book that fail to stick with me enough to jump out on a second flip through when I've actually sat down to write a review or paper are the last thing I should attempt to write about. 

I get that everyone's different, though -- my husband can read three books on a topic and forget which is which, even after taking notes.  But hey -- he understands computers while all I know how to do is break them.

One thing in academia -- and even in the novel writing community -- that never fails to annoy me is the belief that everyone's process needs to be the same.  I call garbage on that -- at the end of the day, the real world judges the product, not the process. 

Yet some writing instructors insist on telling people that they need to write in the morning, or that all good writers use an outline, or any of a number of other kinds of foolish untruths.  If I wrote a writing book, it would have such suggestions as, "Some people are morning people, others are night people.  I'm willing to bet that you know which you are.  If you don't know, try writing at various times of the day and see what works best."

At the end of the day, no one can tell if you wrote an outline, took notes, waited until the night before, etc, etc.  If anyone cares, they shouldn't.   :tongue:

Also, something that I keep imagining is that as my children grow older (the first one is still in the womb, so we're talking years from now), they'll pick up books from my shelf to read and they'll open up to my margin notes and learn a different side of me than what they see day-to-day: a woman who taught high school before she was anyone's mother, a woman who sits around marking up books as she ponders their content, a woman who thinks deeply about life's big questions, a woman who chuckles as she reads Hawthorne and Fitzgerald and Twain. Children have a difficult time conceptualizing that their parents had lives, jobs, relationships, and deep thoughts about the world prior to the children's arrival in it. I hope my marginalia will one day help me to build a deeper relationship with my children. We'll see.

I can see that.

My children will probably think of me as the crazy one who barely even allowed them to write their names in their books.  But they will have hand journaled scrapbooking layouts galore -- and if they really want to get inside my head, I've got a blog for that.   :tongue:
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Spooky on January 21, 2014, 02:57:03 AM
Quote
One thing in academia -- and even in the novel writing community -- that never fails to annoy me is the belief that everyone's process needs to be the same.  I call garbage on that -- at the end of the day, the real world judges the product, not the process.

Dean Koontz suggests perfecting a page before moving on to the next, whilst Stephen King says go back later, what's what rewrite is for.  Two totally opposite tactics but they're both hugely successful authors.
It takes a little practice, trying to figure out what works best for each person. But I certainly wouldn't call someone arrogant or a bad person for not doing it the way I do.


Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 21, 2014, 03:02:42 AM
Quote
One thing in academia -- and even in the novel writing community -- that never fails to annoy me is the belief that everyone's process needs to be the same.  I call garbage on that -- at the end of the day, the real world judges the product, not the process.

Dean Koontz suggests perfecting a page before moving on to the next, whilst Stephen King says go back later, what's what rewrite is for.  Two totally opposite tactics but they're both hugely successful authors.
It takes a little practice, trying to figure out what works best for each person. But I certainly wouldn't call someone arrogant or a bad person for not doing it the way I do.

Stephen King is one of the worst offenders of "you must do it my way to be a real writer."  He strikes me as very smug in interviews, which amuses the crud out of me as I've never managed to stay entertained enough to finish one of his books.  (I could have made myself, but my days of required reading are long over.  Life is too short to read "bad" books.)
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Spooky on January 21, 2014, 03:15:28 AM
Stephen King is one of the worst offenders of "you must do it my way to be a real writer."  He strikes me as very smug in interviews, which amuses the crud out of me as I've never managed to stay entertained enough to finish one of his books.  (I could have made myself, but my days of required reading are long over.  Life is too short to read "bad" books.)

I enjoyed most of his books, but right around Cell I started seeing the awful liberal bias in his books. The last one I read was Duma Key (2008).  It was alright I guess. I just now see he's written a sequel to The Shining, so I want to see what that's all about.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 21, 2014, 03:18:03 AM
Stephen King is one of the worst offenders of "you must do it my way to be a real writer."  He strikes me as very smug in interviews, which amuses the crud out of me as I've never managed to stay entertained enough to finish one of his books.  (I could have made myself, but my days of required reading are long over.  Life is too short to read "bad" books.)

I enjoyed most of his books, but right around Cell I started seeing the awful liberal bias in his books. The last one I read was Duma Key (2008).  It was alright I guess. I just now see he's written a sequel to The Shining, so I want to see what that's all about.

I got about halfway through The Shining.  The whole "redrum" thing was amusing, at best.   :tongue:

But then, horror often strikes me funny.  It's like they try so hard to be creepy that they wind up over the top funny.

I'm also tough to scare -- Rear Window scares me more than something more supernatural.  Because it's much, much more likely for your neighbor to kill his wife than it is for some of the weird supernatural stuff to actually happen.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: per_passionem_eius on January 21, 2014, 09:31:59 AM
Well, if making notations in a book is making yourself the co-author (it's not, but whatever) then a diary is one big narcissism-fest of self aggrandizement. I suspect you're against diaries as well then?

Your suspicion is unfounded.  I think many saints would say that diaries can be extremely helpful for the spiritual life.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 21, 2014, 03:10:46 PM
Marking a book makes the book about you.  It makes you something of a co-author.  If you want to note your own thoughts etc., why not use something more suited to that purpose, like a diary?

In one sense, reading a book is about the reader. In order for the book to have served its purpose, the reader must respond to it. I'm failing to understand what is wrong with recording those responses right next to the material itself. One thing that I tell my students is that good readers interact with a text. They don't just read and say, "Welp, that's that." They ask questions as they read, they explain their responses, they mark things that they found humorous, they make connections to their lives and to other literary works and to material from earlier in the text itself. Reading is interactive and being able to interact with a work is not something that most people can just do in their brains and remember it for days or weeks at a time.

It's the same thing that we do when we quote one another on the forum. I place my response adjacent to your ideas so that the context is understandable. I'm not becoming a co-author to your ideas; I'm responding to your ideas and interacting with them. I do the same thing when I respond to a literary work, which is why I write directly in the book.

A good article about this topic (one that I gave to my students earlier this year and one that I think was recommended to me by LouisIX) is Mortimer Adler's "How to Mark a Book." (http://academics.keene.edu/tmendham/documents/AdlerMortimerHowToMarkABook_20060802.pdf)
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: piabee on January 21, 2014, 03:18:34 PM
I had a college instructor (not a professor; this was freshman English writing class at a community college) who gave assignments specifically to mark up the reading. It was ridiculous and I learned nothing from doing it.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Lynne on January 21, 2014, 03:21:35 PM
Marking a book makes the book about you.  It makes you something of a co-author.  If you want to note your own thoughts etc., why not use something more suited to that purpose, like a diary?

In one sense, reading a book is about the reader. In order for the book to have served its purpose, the reader must respond to it. I'm failing to understand what is wrong with recording those responses right next to the material itself. One thing that I tell my students is that good readers interact with a text. They don't just read and say, "Welp, that's that." They ask questions as they read, they explain their responses, they mark things that they found humorous, they make connections to their lives and to other literary works and to material from earlier in the text itself. Reading is interactive and being able to interact with a work is not something that most people can just do in their brains and remember it for days or weeks at a time.

It's the same thing that we do when we quote one another on the forum. I place my response adjacent to your ideas so that the context is understandable. I'm not becoming a co-author to your ideas; I'm responding to your ideas and interacting with them. I do the same thing when I respond to a literary work, which is why I write directly in the book.

A good article about this topic (one that I gave to my students earlier this year and one that I think was recommended to me by LouisIX) is Mortimer Adler's "How to Mark a Book." (http://academics.keene.edu/tmendham/documents/AdlerMortimerHowToMarkABook_20060802.pdf)

Even though most of my books are bought for the Kindle now, I feel this will be very helpful. (I'll probably send this pdf to my Kindle so I don't lose it).  :)
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 21, 2014, 03:24:08 PM
I had a college instructor (not a professor; this was freshman English writing class at a community college) who gave assignments specifically to mark up the reading. It was ridiculous and I learned nothing from doing it.

That sounds like babying college students to me.  You graduated high school, you made it to college -- you probably know what note taking style works for you.  And, if you don't, hey, there are ways to figure out new things to try that, as an adult, you can figure out for yourself.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: Penelope on January 21, 2014, 03:33:59 PM
I had a college instructor (not a professor; this was freshman English writing class at a community college) who gave assignments specifically to mark up the reading. It was ridiculous and I learned nothing from doing it.

That sounds like babying college students to me.  You graduated high school, you made it to college -- you probably know what note taking style works for you.  And, if you don't, hey, there are ways to figure out new things to try that, as an adult, you can figure out for yourself.

You overestimate most college (community or otherwise) students. My husband has been teaching college since 2007 and the majority of his students can barely string words together to form a coherent sentence. They have no idea how to read with a purpose ("Isn't skimming enough? I opened the book and looked at the pages. What more is there to it?"). They can't figure it out for themselves and the standards for so many high schools are so low that it doesn't take much to get into college these days.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: per_passionem_eius on January 21, 2014, 03:35:28 PM
I've thought of an exception: play scripts may be marked as long as you're involved in a production.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: OCLittleFlower on January 21, 2014, 03:37:50 PM
I had a college instructor (not a professor; this was freshman English writing class at a community college) who gave assignments specifically to mark up the reading. It was ridiculous and I learned nothing from doing it.

That sounds like babying college students to me.  You graduated high school, you made it to college -- you probably know what note taking style works for you.  And, if you don't, hey, there are ways to figure out new things to try that, as an adult, you can figure out for yourself.

You overestimate most college (community or otherwise) students. My husband has been teaching college since 2007 and the majority of his students can barely string words together to form a coherent sentence. They have no idea how to read with a purpose ("Isn't skimming enough? I opened the book and looked at the pages. What more is there to it?"). They can't figure it out for themselves and the standards for so many high schools are so low that it doesn't take much to get into college these days.

Eh, they're semi-literate legal adults.  IMO there is no need to try to make them give a darn if they refuse to.  Nor is there any need to make the rest of us sit through the same "this is how we take notes, kids" garbage that we've been hearing since 4th grade.  It's one reason I dropped out, actually -- I was paying to repeat stuff that had been a repeat back in 7th grade, and 9th grade, and 11th grade. 
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 21, 2014, 04:28:23 PM
And you can do all of that far better with a notepad and paper.

But the notepad and paper are extrinsic from the text.  That's the entire point of writing in the margins.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: per_passionem_eius on January 21, 2014, 04:32:35 PM
And you can do all of that far better with a notepad and paper.

But the notepad and paper are extrinsic from the text.  That's the entire point of writing in the margins.

I was waiting for this and I have a clever reply prepared: But what are photocopy machines and scanner for, then?  And scissors and double-sided tape? 
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 21, 2014, 05:04:17 PM
And you can do all of that far better with a notepad and paper.

But the notepad and paper are extrinsic from the text.  That's the entire point of writing in the margins.

I was waiting for this and I have a clever reply prepared: But what are photocopy machines and scanner for, then?  And scissors and double-sided tape?

Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: per_passionem_eius on January 21, 2014, 05:06:56 PM
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 21, 2014, 05:10:56 PM
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?

I don't presume anything in that regard.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: per_passionem_eius on January 21, 2014, 05:32:22 PM
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?

I don't presume anything in that regard.

Then I presume you no longer mark your books!
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: LouisIX on January 21, 2014, 05:55:11 PM
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?

I don't presume anything in that regard.

Then I presume you no longer mark your books!

Oh, I still mark them.  I mark them all up.
Title: Re: "Renting" Books
Post by: per_passionem_eius on January 21, 2014, 05:58:11 PM
Photocopy machines are relatively new and more expensive than just a pen and the book I already own.

You're too poor to pay for copies, but you presume you'll never be so poor as to need to sell your books?

I don't presume anything in that regard.

Then I presume you no longer mark your books!

Oh, I still mark them.  I mark them all up.

 :crazy2: