Suscipe Domine Traditional Catholic Forum

The Church Courtyard => Catholic Liturgical Life => Topic started by: Geremia on September 08, 2019, 06:31:11 PM

Title: 13th Sun. after Pentecost or Nativity of the B.V.M. today?
Post by: Geremia on September 08, 2019, 06:31:11 PM
Did you celebrate 13th Sun. after Pentecost today or Nativity of the B.V.M.?

The SSPX's Ordo for today (https://1962ordo.today/day/dominica-xv-pentecost-2-2/) says the former, but sedevacantists celebrated the latter (https://mhtseminary.libsyn.com/sermon-nativity-of-our-lady-by-bp-sanborn).

Why have, up until the mid-'50s, these feasts been classified as "Semiduplex Dominica minor" and "Duplex II. classis," respectively, but from at least 1960 onward they've both been classified simply a "II. classis"?
Title: Re: 13th Sun. after Pentecost or Nativity of the B.V.M. today?
Post by: Prayerful on September 08, 2019, 06:47:34 PM
The first, and I cannot think of any venue in Ireland where it would be otherwise, between diocesan, religious houses, SSPX and SSPX Resistance (hire rooms in hotels and I think a chapel in Co. Kerry). The homily, though was about raising money for the presbytery roof, via sponsor a tile, and he held a big tile while speaking from the pupit.

(https://i1.wp.com/www.latinmassdublin.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/StKevinsOutside.jpg)

This Sunday focusing which happened between the fifties and early sixties, which eliminated most octaves and the accessible marking of many Feast, was retrograde, but I see limited prospect of change for now. Some FSSP parishes apparently are allowed some leeway with Holy Week, but for nearly all practicing Catholics will be experiencing the handywork of Mgsr Bugnini and allies for a long time.
Title: Re: 13th Sun. after Pentecost or Nativity of the B.V.M. today?
Post by: aquinas138 on September 13, 2019, 02:21:59 AM
Did you celebrate 13th Sun. after Pentecost today or Nativity of the B.V.M.?

The SSPX's Ordo for today (https://1962ordo.today/day/dominica-xv-pentecost-2-2/) says the former, but sedevacantists celebrated the latter (https://mhtseminary.libsyn.com/sermon-nativity-of-our-lady-by-bp-sanborn).

Why have, up until the mid-'50s, these feasts been classified as "Semiduplex Dominica minor" and "Duplex II. classis," respectively, but from at least 1960 onward they've both been classified simply a "II. classis"?

The rubrical reforms under John XXIII in 1960 eliminated the distinction between double, semidouble, and simple rite, and replaced the old rankings with I, II, and III class and commemorations (finishing the work of Pius XII, who had already begun to dismantle these distinctions of rite in 1956). III Class feasts falling on a Sunday are omitted; II Class feasts of the Lord may be celebrated on II Class Sundays (the Sunday is omitted), but II Class of other feasts are reduced to a commemoration at Lauds and Low Masses only. The loss of double-semidouble-simple was a destruction of a specifically Roman feature of the Roman liturgy and is to be lamented.

I'm happy to worship in the Byzantine rite, which finds a place for virtually everything without transferring anything—the Nativity of the Theotokos and the Sunday were happily celebrated together. Byzantine Catholics even celebrated the Annunciation and Good Friday on the same day in 2016.
Title: Re: 13th Sun. after Pentecost or Nativity of the B.V.M. today?
Post by: Geremia on September 15, 2019, 05:03:29 PM
Today's feast of the 7 Sorrows of the Blessed Virgin Mary suffered the same fate in the ecumenical, "Marian minimalism," 1960s Roman Calendar deforms.