Suscipe Domine Traditional Catholic Forum

The Parish Hall => The Natural Sciences => Topic started by: Xavier on June 10, 2018, 05:32:02 AM

Title: C14 still present in ancients rocks, fossils and diamonds falsifies evolution.
Post by: Xavier on June 10, 2018, 05:32:02 AM
1. Evolution needs 100s of millions if not billions (for particle to people evolution) to work. Therefore, a proof that the earth is a few hundred thousand years or less than a million years old falsifies evolution.

2. Is there such a clear proof? Yes, from C14 dating, and without making any assumptions at all about original quantity. C14 is radioactive with a half life of about 5730 years. That means, if there were originally 10 units of C14, there would be only 5 after 5730 years, 2.5 units (1/4th of 10) after 11460 years etc and similarly less than 0.01 units (2^-10=1/1024 of 10, less than 10/1000) after a mere 57300 years; finally, in 573,000 years or 100 halflife periods, less than (2^-100=(2^10)^-10; we have seen 2^10 is about 10^3, so 1/2^100 is about 1/10^30 or 0.00 (30 zeros) 1 units, which is practically zero, all in much less than a single million years.

3. So, even if we supposedly had 100s of millions of tons (which is impossible, it would be much lower) of C14 originally present in rocks, diamonds etc, almost all of it would be gone in less than 1 million years! So, how is it we still regularly and almost universally find c14 present in rocks, fossils, diamonds and the like. Evolutionists have no answer, to plead "contamination" in each and every case is a poor excuse and unscientific, and in that case would completely limit any knowledge anyway, since then anything could be a contamination and nothing could be stated with certainty about time scales. After very scrupulously preventing contamination, the most advanced laboratories find c14 remaining. This falsifies evolution, because Darwin needs many millions of years more for his God-denying fairytale to work, and doesn't even get one full million.

An article from Kolbe centre for the study of creation mentions this simple consideration in passing: "What is really needed, of course, is the serious scientific study of such phenomena. Unfortunately, evolutionists refuse point blank to even consider the possibility of such evidence. The same is true of the Carbon 14 testing of coal, dinosaur bones and diamonds. Data that does not fit the conventional time-frame is ignored or derided. Fortunately, a growing amount of this evidence is being studied with scientific vigor by professional scientists who are not in the least intimidated by the evolutionary elite. ‘Out of place’ fossil footprints are now sectioned, CT scanned and investigated thoroughly. Dinosaur bones, diamonds, coal and other materials, even the sedimentary rock itself, are now tested for Carbon 14. C14 has a relatively short half-life, and should not exist in these materials if the evolutionary story is to be believed. But it does exist, and in some quantity"

And one from ICR in more detail. Note that coal, wood and fossils from all over the world and throughout the geologic column were tested and, incredibly, C14 was found to be present in as many as 50! A clearer and more direct falsification of "millions of years" of lies could hardly be asked for.

"New science directly challenges the millions-of-years dogma scattered throughout the blockbuster movie Jurassic World. The spring 2015 edition of the Creation Research Society Quarterly (CRSQ) is a special issue that focuses on the investigation of dinosaur proteins inside fossil bones. The last article in the issue presents never-before-seen carbon dates for 14 different fossils, including dinosaurs. Because radiocarbon decays relatively quickly, fossils that are even 100,000 years old should have virtually no radiocarbon left in them.1 But they do ...

The CRSQ study authors tested seven dinosaur bones, including a Triceratops from Montana, hadrosaurids, a cartilaginous paddlefish, a bony fish, and fresh-looking wood and lizard bones from Permian layers in Canada and Oklahoma. Five different commercial and academic laboratories detected carbon-14 in all the samples, whether from Cenozoic, Mesozoic, or Paleozoic source rocks. How did that radiocarbon get there?

The team also compared the results to several dozen published carbon-14 results for fossils, wood, and coal from all over the world and throughout the geologic column. Comparable amounts of radiocarbon showed up in almost 50 total samples.2

Defenders of evolutionary time scales will have to assert that the radiocarbon all came from some sort of contamination, where recent or modern carbon somehow crept into all these samples. This has been argued before, but the testing process itself is loaded with procedures that rigorously remove contaminants.

Secular researchers routinely detect radiocarbon in carbon-containing materials like coal, oil, marble, and diamond—materials they would like to use as "carbon dead" standards. If contamination is really to blame for these results, then why does it appear in such supposedly old material as well as in every single fossil in the CRSQ report? Broad-brushed claims of contamination weaken with every new documented carbon date from really old material ... Real-world experiments counter the feasibility of ... repeated assertions of "millions of years."
Title: Re: C14 still present in ancients rocks, fossils and diamonds falsifies evolution.
Post by: Xavier on June 11, 2018, 09:13:14 PM
In the traditional Christmas Liturgy, the Church confidently proclaims human history is less than 10,000 years old. See in the modern liturgy, it is changed. So all traditional Catholics should firmly believe the former.

In another thread, we saw the math doesn't add up for evolution - if 10,000 human beings evolved from monkeyish ancestors even in 100,000 B.C., or any time earlier, the world's population would have almost certainly crossed 10 million long before 10,000 B.C., which even evolutionists agree it never did. From c14 dating, we have another confirmation that millions of years never passed. C14 completely decays in less than a million years, yet we find it in even what the evolutionists admit to be some of the oldest rocks on planet earth.

There are at least 3 more clear confirmations of this age. Beside the two above, the third scientific confirmation comes from helium diffusion, since large quantities of helium are still present in ancient "1.5 billion year old" zircon crystals. But experiments have shown that helium, being the second lightest element, rapidly diffuses out, so rapidly that hardly any would be left in 100,000 years. Here, we have another confirmation, from the verifiable fact that helium remains present in these crystals, that less than 100,000 years have passed since earth's creation. see also

Why are these rocks still full of helium atoms? Because they were created recently. Why is up to 58% of all the helium that could ever have been generated still present in them? Because less than 100,000 years have passed since creation.

During the radioactive decay of uranium and thorium contained in rocks, lots of helium is produced. Because helium is the second lightest element and a noble gas—meaning it does not combine with other atoms—it readily diffuses (leaks) out and eventually escapes into the atmosphere. Helium diffuses so rapidly that all the helium should have leaked out in less than 100,000 years. So why are these rocks still full of helium atoms?

While drilling deep Precambrian (pre-Flood) granitic rocks in New Mexico, geologists extracted samples of zircon (zirconium silicate) crystals from different depths. The crystals contained not only uranium but also large amounts of helium.1 The hotter the rocks, the faster the helium should escape, so researchers were surprised to find that the deepest, and therefore hottest, zircons (at 387°F or 197°C) contained far more helium than expected. Up to 58% of the helium that the uranium could have ever generated was still present in the crystals.

The helium leakage rate has been determined in several experiments.2 All measurements are in agreement. Helium diffuses so rapidly that all the helium in these zircon crystals should have leaked out in less than 100,000 years. The fact that so much helium is still there means they cannot be 1.5 billion years old ...
Title: Re: C14 still present in ancients rocks, fossils and diamonds falsifies evolution.
Post by: Xavier on June 12, 2018, 07:14:46 AM
Confirmation #4: Soft tissue, blood, haemoglobin, DNA, collagen, protein and other elements that cannot survive "millions of years" found intact in dinosaur and other ancient fossils:

From Kolbe centre for the study of creation,

For example, Carbon 14 is an isotope formed by the radioactive decay of carbon atoms, which is not supposed to be detectable in organic material older than about 50,000 to 60,000 years because of its short half life. However, it is often found in materials dated by other methods to be millions of years old, including petroleum, coal, wood, and bone, and has even been detected in diamonds otherwise dated at billions of years of age.[10],[11],[12]

Additionally, the surprising discovery of soft tissue in fossils presumed to be millions of years old brings radiometric dating into direct contradiction with currently observed decay rates of organic materials.  In 2005 and 2007, evolutionary scientist Mary Schweitzer reported on the discovery of what appeared to be blood cells in 65 million years old tyrannosaur bones.[13],[14] This presented a quandary for scientists, because organic material is not supposed to last that long based upon present decay rates.[15] When her work was called into question, Dr. Schweitzer obtained similar tissue in 80 million year old hadrosaur bones, went to extraordinary lengths to prevent contamination and perform rigorous tests on her samples, and defended her discovery in an article in Science that appears to have satisfied her detractors.[16] But nobody, including Dr Schweitzer, has called into question the high improbability of blood surviving 65-80 million years.

More ancient organic matter has been unearthed since Schweitzer’s original discovery.  Examples include:

Exoskeleton remnants discovered in 417 million year old eurypterid and 310 million year old scorpion (February 2011)[17]
Dark colored, soft tissue melanocytes found in 120 million year old dinosaurs[18] (May 2010)
Preserved ink sac from 150 million year old squid[19] (August 2009)
Original shell preserved from 189-199 million year old lobster[20] (September 2010)
Organic molecules preserved in 66 million year old hadrosaur[21] (July 2009)
Preservation of scaly soft tissue in 36 million year old penguin[22] (September 2010)
Remains of 50 million year old insects found preserved in amber[23] (November 2010)
Blood and eye tissues, skin and cartilage preserved in two 80 million year old mosasaurs[24],[25] (March, October 2010) and one 70 million year-old mosasaur[26](May 2011)
Bone marrow found in 10 million year old frog[27] (July 2006)
Muscle tissue found in 18 million year old salamander[28] (November 2009)
Original feather material found in 150 million year old archaeopteryx[29] (May 2010)
In a study published in April 2011, researchers in Sweden subjected soft tissue from a presumed 70 million year old mosasaur to a battery of tests to determine if the material was original to the organism.[30] Not only did they confirm that the tissue was indeed original, but the fibrous tissue absorbed dye just like connective tissue from a modern bone.
Title: Re: C14 still present in ancients rocks, fossils and diamonds falsifies evolution.
Post by: Xavier on June 15, 2018, 01:31:42 AM
Confirmation/Demonstration #5: Fossils buried deep in the ground and the adjoining rocks have collagen and C14 in them and are dated to a few tens of thousands of years ago!:

In a highly professional paper from Science vs Evolution, the authors demonstrate beyond all reasonable doubt that the collagen remaining in bones shows incontrovertibly that evolution is a lie: " Indeed both bones contained collagen and conventional dates of 30,890 ± 380 radiocarbon years (RC) for the Triceratops and 23,170 ±170 RC years for the Hadrosaur were obtained using the Accelerated Mass Spectrometer (AMS)" Some of the demonstrations in the link below may be a bit technical for us laymen, but an in-depth study of the same is highly warranted.

Abstract: The discovery of collagen in a Tyrannosaurus-rex dinosaur femur bone was recently reported in the journal Science. Its geologic location was the Hell Creek Formation in the State of Montana, United States of America. When it was learned in 2005 that Triceratops and Hadrosaur femur bones in excellent condition were discovered by the Glendive (MT) Dinosaur & Fossil Museum, Hugh Miller asked and received permission to saw them in half and collect samples for C-14 testing of any bone collagen that might be extracted. Indeed both bones contained collagen and conventional dates of 30,890 ± 380 radiocarbon years (RC) for the Triceratops and 23,170 ±170 RC years for the Hadrosaur were obtained using the Accelerated Mass Spectrometer (AMS). Total organic carbon and/or dinosaur bone bio-apatite was then extracted and pretreated to remove potential contaminants and concordant radiocarbon dates were obtained, all of which were similar to radiocarbon dates for megafauna."
Title: Re: C14 still present in ancients rocks, fossils and diamonds falsifies evolution.
Post by: Xavier on June 15, 2018, 01:35:08 AM
Let's have a debunking of the misuse or rather abuse of potassium argon dating - the most commonly used form of "long age" dating - and it's circular nature when applied to elements less than 100,000 years. Potassium decays to argon with a half life of 1.25 billion years.

Debunking #1: Potassium Argon dating cannot be used for dating elements less than 100,000 years, as only a few evolutionary sites have the courage and honesty to openly admit!

The more reasonable evolutionary sites themselves admit it cannot be used to falsify timescales less than 100,000 years. To use isotopes that have half lives of billions of years will lead to demonstrably wrong results, as the following two points illustrate.

Potassium Argon dating assumes the sample is more than 100,000 years old - exactly what needs to be proved and which has been disproved above; therefore it is circular, and inappropriate to use without first providing an independent proof that more than 100,000 years have passed.

To give an example, if they find, say, the ratio of Potassium to Argon is roughly 50:50, they conclude 1.25 billion years has passed. Rocks known to be less than 20 years old were "dated" to 2.8 million years by this method. It should be clear elements with very large half lifes are not appropriate.

From an evolutionary site:"As the simulation of the processing of potassium-argon samples showed, the standard deviations for K-Ar dates are so large that resolution higher than about a million years is almost impossible to achieve. By comparison, radiocarbon dates seem almost as precise as a cesium clock! Potassium-argon dating is accurate from 4.3 billion years (the [evolutionary] age of the Earth) to about 100,000 years before the present."
Title: Re: C14 still present in ancients rocks, fossils and diamonds falsifies evolution.
Post by: Xavier on June 15, 2018, 01:44:38 AM
Debunking #2: the same potassium argon dating when erroneously used returns an "age" of "2.8 million years"(!) for a rock known to be about 20 years old!!! (showing evolutionists need an independent proof that more than 100,000 years have passed first; and are being deliberately dishonest when yhey claim this method has proved it)

This is a very simple trick which the evolutionists use to pull the wool over their eyes, by which the whole world almost in the words of St. Jerome "has groaned to find itself" evolutionist. For although Darwinism "was but one spark in" England, "because that spark was not at once put out, the whole world has been laid waste by its flame." Here are the steps of the trick.

1. Use elements that have half lifes of billions of years half life.
2. Conceal from most of your readers that such elements cannot be used for dating substances less than 100,000 years (because the time fraction is too small for discernible changes to show up - meaningless differences of "millions of years" will be produced by very small divergences in the ratio of mother to daughter isotope)
3. Lie to the world that you have "proved" 100s of millions of years have actually passed.
4. While an old earth itself by no means proves evolution, a time scale of less than 1 millionn years since creation demonstrably falsifies it - as even the apostate Darwin conceded, because microbes cannot be turned to microbiologists in that time frame.

Table in the link below. Just an excerpt copied.

"Sample  (Mt.St.Helens' new dome)"Age"  (in millions of years)    1.  "Whole Rock"    0.35  ±  0.05    2.  Feldspar, etc.    0.34  ±  0.06    3.  Amphibole, etc.    0.9   ±   0.2    4.  Pyroxene, etc.    1.7   ±   0.3    5.  Pyroxene    2.8   ±   0.6-------------------------------------------
Figure 2.   Potassium-argon "ages" for "whole rock" and mineral concentrate samples from lava dome at Mount St. Helens.

What can one observe about these results? First and foremost is simply that they are wrong. A correct answer would have been "zero argon" indicating that the sample was too young to date by this method. Instead, the results ranged from 0.35-2.8 million years! Why is this? A good possibility is that solidification of magma does not reset the radioisotope clock to zero. Probably some argon-40 is incorporated from the start into newly formed minerals giving the "appearance" of great age. It should also be noted that there is poor correspondence between the different samples, each taken from the same rock"