The Church Courtyard > General Catholic Discussion

Abortion: The history of canonical penalties and the culpability of women

(1/6) > >>

GiftOfGod:
I recently read this article in the National Review about abortion: https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/another-nine-boxes-when-medical-waste-is-a-mirror-on-the-soul-of-a-nation/ It is written by a Novus Ordite pro-lifer. In it, she said this:


--- Quote ---And if youíve had an abortion or more or had a role to play in one, I am sorry. You deserved better than that. And there are people who will help you in your grieving, no matter how recent or long ago your abortion was. Those of us who oppose abortion donít judge you; we love you and want better for you and your child than what this culture of death says is womenís empowerment.
--- End quote ---

I always find it interesting how the pro-life activists view the mother as a victim. Is there any other type of murder where the perpetrator is treated with kid gloves? I do know that the 1983 "Code of Canon Law" is silent on the mother whereas the 1917 Code of Canon Law explicitly said that the mother is excommunicated. "Cardinal" Dolan, "Archbishop of New York", agrees that mothers are not excommunicated.

I got to searching for what the Church had to say, historically-speaking, and found this 1971 article in a law journal written by a canon lawyer. I enjoyed it and thought that I should share it with you.

https://scholarship.law.stjohns.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1769&context=tcl

ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez:

--- Quote from: GiftOfGod on October 20, 2021, 08:44:34 PM ---I always find it interesting how the pro-life activists view the mother as a victim.

--- End quote ---

They can be thought of as a victim only in the sense that the world lies to them about what's growing inside of them and tells them it's less than human.  "Clump of cells".

Having written that, however, I'm not convinced.  That reasoning would make them roughly as culpable as a Nazi who slaughters untermenschen.


--- Quote from: GiftOfGod on October 20, 2021, 08:44:34 PM ---I do know that the 1983 "Code of Canon Law" is silent on the mother whereas the 1917 Code of Canon Law explicit said that the mother is excommunicated.

--- End quote ---

The 1983 code specifies excommunication as the penalty for a procured abortion.  Unless it specifically excludes the mother, I would assume it to include her.


--- Quote from: GiftOfGod on October 20, 2021, 08:44:34 PM ---"Cardinal" Dolan, "Archbishop of New York", agrees that mothers are not excommunicated.

--- End quote ---

He does a lot of stuff that is incompatible with the Catholic faith.  I'm not going to get hung up on it.

GiftOfGod:

--- Quote from: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on October 20, 2021, 08:50:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: GiftOfGod on October 20, 2021, 08:44:34 PM ---I always find it interesting how the pro-life activists view the mother as a victim.

--- End quote ---

They can be thought of as a victim only in the sense that the world lies to them about what's growing inside of them and tells them it's less than human.  "Clump of cells".
--- End quote ---
It's hard to argue ignorance when everyone who doesn't live under a rock knows that abortion is controversial and abortion clinics even in San Francisco have pro-life protestors in front at all times. Abortion-mothers might believe the lies but they are not ignorant of the pro-life argument. Besides, as mentioned in that Fr. Wathen thread, ignorance of the [moral] law is no excuse. To claim otherwise is some modernist BS that made its way into children's catechisms.


--- Quote from: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on October 20, 2021, 08:50:06 PM ---
--- Quote from: GiftOfGod on October 20, 2021, 08:44:34 PM ---I do know that the 1983 "Code of Canon Law" is silent on the mother whereas the 1917 Code of Canon Law explicit said that the mother is excommunicated.

--- End quote ---

The 1983 code specifies excommunication as the penalty for a procured abortion.  Unless it specifically excludes the mother, I would assume it to include her.

--- End quote ---
This canon lawyer disagrees: http://www.canonlaw.info/a_miller.htm

ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez:

--- Quote from: GiftOfGod on October 20, 2021, 09:03:38 PM ---This canon lawyer disagrees: http://www.canonlaw.info/a_miller.htm

--- End quote ---

Clearly neither of us agrees with him, so what's the point of posting it?

I can connect you with a priest who disputes the inerrancy of Scripture, but that doesn't prove there's a problem with Scripture.

GiftOfGod:

--- Quote from: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on October 20, 2021, 09:08:08 PM ---
--- Quote from: GiftOfGod on October 20, 2021, 09:03:38 PM ---This canon lawyer disagrees: http://www.canonlaw.info/a_miller.htm

--- End quote ---

Clearly neither of us agrees with him, so what's the point of posting it?

I can connect you with a priest who disputes the inerrancy of Scripture, but that doesn't prove there's a problem with Scripture.

--- End quote ---
Again, not an argument. Do you believe the 1983 code is in force? If so, that would explain your irrational defense of it.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

There was an error while thanking
Thanking...
Go to full version