Salve!

[CMTV]

Wow. Just, wow.

[Jayne]

This thread is being used on another forum as a pretense to attack SD.  They (mostly disgruntled former SD members) are claiming that the welcome given to VO shows that SD is indifferent to whether posters are Catholic.

This is an unreasonable claim.  VO was banned from SD in March 2013.  In order for him to resume posting as he has, VO would have had to request this from the admin.  None of us knows what took place during that discussion. Presumably, it was something that convinced KK that VO should be allowed back.

I think it is safe to say that every person who has welcomed VO wants to see him believing and practicing traditional Catholicism.  I know that it is something that I prayed for during his time away and I suspect that I am not the only one.

[Vetus Ordo]

This thread is being used on another forum as a pretense to attack SD.

If that is the case, then delete it.

[Jayne]

I don't see deleting this thread as a good solution.  I expect those people on the other forum to continue their attacks.  I hoped that letting you all know about it would give those who wished it a chance to defend themselves from the backbiting.

[red solo cup]

I just popped over there and couldn't  find the thread. Which sub-forum? What's the name of the thread?

[Jayne]

I just popped over there and couldn't  find the thread. Which sub-forum? What's the name of the thread?

I sent you a link by PM.  It might not be the forum you are thinking of.  The thread is called "*Another* SD Post-- The Return of Vetus Ordo"

[Mono no aware]

This thread is being used on another forum as a pretense to attack SD.  They (mostly disgruntled former SD members) are claiming that the welcome given to VO shows that SD is indifferent to whether posters are Catholic.

I don't know if SD is "indifferent" as to whether or not a poster is Catholic, but given the fact that there is a field on this forum for listing one's religion, it seems to go without saying that non-Catholics are allowed to post if they follow the rules.  Otherwise "religion" could just auto-fill as "traditional Catholic," and posters like abc123, Probius, Kirin, and myself would have long since been banned by now.  Incidentally, I never filled out that field myself, due to a personal confusion over whether I was some sort of infallibility-denying Catholic (after all, if Francis can be the pope and deny half a dozen dogmas, then why couldn't I as well?) or whether perhaps I was, to paraphrase Fr. Karl Rahner, an "Anonymous Eastern Orthodox Christian."  But that has all been sorted, and now I think I can answer with confidence.

Mithrandylan's forum simply has stricter rules, as is his prerogative.  There's nothing wrong with him pointing out an instance where he sees a comparative laxity; it's no different than the posters here who've complained about Fish Eaters for allowing a transsexual to post.  Personally I'm just disappointed that he has chosen to stick with the word "trad" in his forum title.  I guess that term might be okay as a shorthand, since it can be a little more time-consuming to type out "traditional Catholic," but to take a cutesy-bopsy-sounding term and etch it in stone like that is, in my opinion, a tad indecorous.  But I do like his forum's logo (it's not precisely the chi rho, and I don't know what it's called when it includes the alpha and omega like that), and in any case his choice of a forum name doesn't diminish my respect for him as an intelligent and sensible person with (mostly) good taste, and certainly one of the best posters on SD in his time.  You do him a disservice by giving him nothing more than "disgruntled former SD member."

[Matto]

I am a member at both forums now. And I contributed to the thread in question. I said that when I first read SD I thought it was somewhat liberal but after joining I found that it was not that the forum was liberal but that there were many different posters with different opinions some more liberal and some more conservative. I don't think you, Pon de Replay or Maximilian or some other posters here would be allowed to speak freely on Mith's forum because I believe you would be considered dangerous heretics. I think another poster here who you seemed to admire who only made a few posts, AustrianOrthodoxCatholic would also not be welcome. Mith's forum is new with only a few dozen members. I don't think it will become that popular because I think it is for a niche market, a remnant of a remnant, the sedevacantist Catholic online world. I was a fan of Te Deum, the forum Mith is trying to replace, but  I believe Te Deum only had around 250 members. I believe the new forum will not become as popular or have as many members as Te Deum. I would like it to thrive so that it is more helpful and that there are more interesting discussions but I do not think it will. Hopefully I am wrong. I hope at least that it is not shut down with no explanation or even with an explanation like so many other Catholic forums in the past.

All those threads on all those forums lost forever seems like a big waste.

[Mono no aware]

I am a member at both forums now. And I contributed to the thread in question. I said that when I first read SD I thought it was somewhat liberal but after joining I found that it was not that the forum was liberal but that there were many different posters with different opinions some more liberal and some more conservative. I don't think you, Pon de Replay or Maximilian or some other posters here would be allowed to speak freely on Mith's forum because I believe you would be considered dangerous heretics. I think another poster here who you seemed to admire who only made a few posts, AustrianOrthodoxCatholic would also not be welcome. Mith's forum is new with only a few dozen members. I don't think it will become that popular because I think it is for a niche market, a remnant of a remnant, the sedevacantist Catholic online world. I was a fan of Te Deum, the forum Mith is trying to replace, but  I believe Te Deum only had around 250 members. I believe the new forum will not become as popular or have as many members as Te Deum. I would like it to thrive so that it is more helpful and that there are more interesting discussions but I do not think it will. I hope at least that it is not shut down with no explanation or even with an explanation like so many other Catholic forums in the past.

All those threads on all those forums lost forever seems like a big waste.

I was at my dorkiest on Te Deum, contributing mostly lame creative writing entries and otherwise banal commentary, so personally I'm grateful for its annihilation, although I sympathize with people who took their time to compose excellent posts only to have them disappear into the void.

You're right that AustrianOrthodoxCatholic would almost certainly not be welcome on TTF.  As Administrators, Mithrandylan and Kaesekopf have markedly different levels of tolerance, but in my consideration both are justified.  I think Der Kopf sees the situation in a way similar to how the Early Church saw it: that unbelievers and skeptics were to be dialogued with: their arguments had to be taken seriously and given a good response, much in the way of Origen conducting a published correspondence with Celsus, a pagan critic of Christianity.  As we all know, of course, the Church was still being persecuted at the time, and Christianity could not impose itself as the state religion and defend itself with fire (Origen lacked the right to burn Celsus at the stake).  Today we're a lot closer to that paradigm than we are to Christendom.  But on the other hand, I can see how Dylan might see little point in bothering to refute every irritating skeptic on the internet, and so he probably views a traditional Catholic forum as a microcosm for the ideal Christian society of ages past, when error had no rights, where there was banishment and shunning, and heretics and apostates could've been dispensed with for good (because if you're dead you can't leave your pamphlets lying around in the public square, or whisper sweet heterodoxies into the ears of impressionable little ones).  Perma-banning is like the internet version of death (or at least banishment).

SD's policy appears to be something along the lines of Pope Benedict XVI's call for a "Courtyard of the Gentiles" which, according to the Vatican's website, offers "a space of expression for those who do not believe, and for those who are asking questions about their faith, a window open to the world, to contemporary culture and to the voices that resonate."  Following an intriguing link on that website, I noticed that in Argentina in 2015, the Courtyard project offered a Symposium on "Borges, transcendence, religiosity and agnosticism," with Borge's widow on the panel.  That actually sounds really interesting, but I can also see how a lot of traditional Catholics might easily dismiss that sort of thing as "a whole lot of baloney."

[Jayne]

I did not find Mithrandylan's opening post especially objectionable.  There were posts by others in that thread which bothered me.  Some people were referring to SD by disparaging names.  There was also an accusation that SD accepts marranos as members which, given that the poster involved habitually accuses me of being a marrano, was almost certainly a criticism of SD for allowing me to be a member.  I am admittedly sensitive to accusations that I only pretend to be Catholic in order to subvert the Faith. 

For what it is worth, I admire Mithrandylan and think he is a knowledgeable and insightful poster.  (I just upvoted a post he wrote on Cathinfo earlier today.) 

[Vetus Ordo]

I've always had the best impression of Mithrandylan, to be honest.

I had no idea he had a forum of his own. How many English speaking traditional Catholic forums are out there these days?

[Maximilian]

I don't think you, Pon de Replay or Maximilian or some other posters here would be allowed to speak freely on Mith's forum because I believe you would be considered dangerous heretics.

I searched for "Mithrandylan" and found the forum thread in question. I was very heartened to see that your description was accurate, and that the position which I once seemed to be unique in holding is now considered sufficiently "en vogue" among traditional Catholics as to be a threat.

(e.g., the "en vogue" rejection of Vatican I as the 'real' problem)

I hope at least that it is not shut down with no explanation or even with an explanation like so many other Catholic forums in the past.

All those threads on all those forums lost forever seems like a big waste.

Yes, I've twice experienced having years of research and writing disappear down the memory hole, first with Angelqueen and then with Ignis Ardens.

I'm glad that at least FreeRepublic still maintains all their thread going back nearly 20 years now.

[Vetus Ordo]

I was very heartened to see that your description was accurate, and that the position which I once seemed to be unique in holding is now considered sufficiently "en vogue" among traditional Catholics as to be a threat.

(e.g., the "en vogue" rejection of Vatican I as the 'real' problem)

Can you elaborate a bit on that, Maximilian?

[CMTV]

SD's policy appears to be something along the lines of Pope Benedict XVI's call for a "Courtyard of the Gentiles" which, according to the Vatican's website, offers "a space of expression for those who do not believe, and for those who are asking questions about their faith, a window open to the world, to contemporary culture and to the voices that resonate."  Following an intriguing link on that website, I noticed that in Argentina in 2015, the Courtyard project offered a Symposium on "Borges, transcendence, religiosity and agnosticism," with Borge's widow on the panel.

How aptly put.

[Matto]

I searched for "Mithrandylan" and found the forum thread in question. I was very heartened to see that your description was accurate, and that the position which I once seemed to be unique in holding is now considered sufficiently "en vogue" among traditional Catholics as to be a threat.

I guess you have your detractors, though he did not give your name there, but you also have your supporters. I clearly remember first hearing about you when I was reading Cathinfo a few years ago and you were described as the best poster on the traditional Catholic forums.