Our Lady of Fatima

[MaximGun]

Fatima has a lot going for it.  The revelation that Cardinal Pacelli (later Pius XII) about warnings against tampering with the Faith and the removal of the tabernacle is not easily explained.  For this reason, I accept it.  Throw in the 100 years from the Tuy request, being 2029, and it is scary.  The only real problem is the Portugal prophesy, but as I've posted before, if you add "unless" or "until" after that snippet, there's no problem.

And obviously it is approved.

If you add unless or until to a prophecy and don't reveal that until after the dependent event happens then it is not a prophecy.  It is a fraud.

Only gullible fools believe retroactive prophesies.

[Insanis]

Fatima has a lot going for it.  The revelation that Cardinal Pacelli (later Pius XII) about warnings against tampering with the Faith and the removal of the tabernacle is not easily explained.  For this reason, I accept it.  Throw in the 100 years from the Tuy request, being 2029, and it is scary.  The only real problem is the Portugal prophesy, but as I've posted before, if you add "unless" or "until" after that snippet, there's no problem.

And obviously it is approved.

If you add unless or until to a prophecy and don't reveal that until after the dependent event happens then it is not a prophecy.  It is a fraud.

Only gullible fools believe retroactive prophesies.

Fortunately, this thread is only about Our Lady of Fatima, which is approved by the Church, so we don't have to worry about fraud.

[james03]

If you add unless or until to a prophecy and don't reveal that until after the dependent event happens

It is incomplete, the start of something.

I respect people who reject Fatima due to the Portugal part.  However, you are caught in a dilemma as you are now stuck saying Pacelli made a lucky guess in circa. 1932 that the Church would alter her Faith, apologize for her beliefs, and remove tabernacles.  Throw in lie after lie from the libtards in the Vatican and the 1960 date, and that's a whole lot to sweep under the carpet.

I can more easily explain the Portugal part, so I believe.  If nothing happens in 1929, and I'm level headed enough that war between Honduras and Nicaragua won't count, then I'll write off Fatima as a fraud.  The way things are going, I don't expect I'll be doing that.  AND, belief in Fatima has been a temporal benefit.  I moved to flyover country because of it, so during COVID I was not subject to lock downs, my place of employment stayed open, and I didn't have to wear a goofy muzzle.

[Greg]

James,

Would you agree with this statement you made 4 years ago?

The "always" is a big problem.  Putting "unless" or "until" as the next word saves it, but not by much.  It is a valid objection and a serious one.

I am once again attempting to hold you to some historical consistency to your own words here.  One of the things I have also observed about apparition people is how they reframe the sales pitch and forget things that were considered foundational by themselves before circumstances changed.

It is inconsistent to be a Traditionalist Catholic and then view everything relativistically because it fits your narrative.

Fail to review your errors, and biases and they become habits and you deny they were ever errors and biases.  If the Coronavirus scam is never dissected and the reality that it really just killed people who would soon be dead anyway is never widely acknowledge then in another 100 years the people of the world will be stupid enough to repeat it.

If Fatima is false, perverted or mangled it is not clear to me we will ever know, nor our childrens' children..  In 500 years it will just disappear into a memory hole.  It seems impossible that anything could ever disprove it, nor that there would ever be an incentive to do that given it has been approved.  This is a flaw of apparitions, they can never be proven wrong.

Let's assume Russia is still Orthodox in 100 more years.  Was Fatima false or did Lucia simply not understand something?  How does one ever unprove something of the nature of an apparition which never concretely delivers on its forecasts?  There is always a get out clause that humans (conveniently dead) misinterpreted it.

Father Paul Kramer and Gruner made all sorts of claims over the last few decades.  All of them turned out to be complete nonsense.  Can't we admit that many on this forum at the time and in the context of those times took those prognistications seriously?

Unwoke, no-homo, Russia is one of the better countries in the world, resisting corrupt EU and US sponsored diabolical values.  So that aspect of Fatima is complete ass backwards. The prediction is dead wrong.  Unless of course you imagine an unless, a maybe, an if or a but coming after the forecast.  But such forecasts are bunk.  Like some CNN economics expert who does not want to be held to their words and hedges their statements like a lawyer.

Are we dealing with God here or some sort of capricious middle-eastern genie who came out of a lamp and misleads and misdirects for the sake of entertainment?

And with those thoughts I am going back into my lamp.

[Miriam_M]

For me, the poll does not appear as something one can participate in, so apparently I am not worthy of participation.  Or something.

In any case, I have mainly three take-aways from Fatima, and those accord with what certain trad priests say about Fatima. 

...that "the errors of Russia" were contemporaneous, i.e., Communism.  The spreading of Russian errors referred specifically to the global spread of Communism.  Witness: China, South America, now the U.S.  (Etc.)  I.m.o., if she were appearing today, she would talk about the errors of China and the errors of the United States.

...that the Third Secret, again as argued credibly by certain trad priests and confirmed by actual ecclesiastical history, was and is the apostasy in the hierarchy.  If she were appearing today, she would grieve the continuation of apostasy in the hierarchy, or, as Fr. Ripperger very recently said in a show, "The Church's message is, anything but Catholicism."

...that mankind as of 1917 had already begun its descent into a complacency about personal sin and would magnify that over the coming decades, and that therefore those who were keeping the faith should seriously increase their prayer lives so as to save more souls from damnation. If she were appearing today, she would grieve the magnification of the sins of the flesh and the worship of the body.  She might also grieve the corruption of womanhood.

I don't see Fatima as being so much about the equivalent of history proof-texting as it is about prophetic warnings about spiritual descent, now even more urgent, in my view, than at Fatima. She saw the oncoming descent; we did descend.

[Insanis]

For me, the poll does not appear as something one can participate in, so apparently I am not worthy of participation.  Or something.

The poll is closed so people can see the results. It only ran for a limited time. It was posted 5 days ago though. It ran for about the same time as this.

[james03]

James,

Would you agree with this statement you made 4 years ago?

Greg, why would you underline "you made"?  That was gay.

I am once again attempting to hold you to some historical consistency to your own words here.

Attempting?  It is amazing how my recent posts above are consistent with statements I made 4 years ago.  Actually, not that amazing as I made reference to it:

The only real problem is the Portugal prophesy, but as I've posted before,

So your attempt was a waste.

What is amazing is you would violate your announcement to no longer post.

[Insanis]

One of the things I have also observed about apparition people

Catholics, you mean Catholics.

[Insanis]

I received the parts for the silver Rosary dedicated to Our Lady of Fatima. I am waiting for the beads.

Camera had a hard time focusing and the lighting is bad, but here they are: https://imgur.com/a/y8WsT3n

[Insanis]

The beads are arriving early (USPS must have heard my complaining about their unreliability) and I will, if the beads are what they are supposed to be, be making the rosary today.

I hope my time and expense in making this is more fruitful than attempting to address the nonsense that contaminates this forum.

[Insanis]

Here is the rosary I said I was going to make in honour of Our Lady of Fatima

All metal is solid sterling silver (including all wire). It has a Pardon Crucifix, an Our Lady of Fatima centre, and Dumortierite beads (A grade quality).

For the beads, I chose these because they are dark, natural, high quality, and have blue in them.

[Jayne]

Here is the rosary I said I was going to make in honour of Our Lady of Fatima

All metal is solid sterling silver (including all wire). It has a Pardon Crucifix, an Our Lady of Fatima centre, and Dumortierite beads (A grade quality).

For the beads, I chose these because they are dark, natural, high quality, and have blue in them.

I like all of your Rosaries that I have seen, but this one is my favourite.  It is very beautiful.

[Insanis]

I like all of your Rosaries that I have seen, but this one is my favourite.  It is very beautiful.

Thanks. I used to make a lot of different varieties, and many were very elegant (I've used gold, A grade pearls, other gems, etc), but my personal "niche" for the most demand was Memento Mori designs and habit rosaries.

I don't think I have pictures of all my rosaries (I used to have pictures), but I do have a bead from every rosary I've made strong together as a rosary in itself (well, one complete 15 decade rosary, and the a few decades into another rosary). It is kind of trippy, because it is all different beads of different sizes and colours

This is the first silver rosary I've made in a while. It is still available (link in signature). Unlike most precious metals rosaries, it is "full sized" and substantial (actually probably heavier than the other rosaries I have listed...they all have 8mm beads).

[Insanis]

I would like to point out, after this thread has apparently gotten all the responses that it will for now, that the question was: Is Our Lady of Fatima worthy of Catholic devotion?

This is an approved title of Mary, and refers to her. Regardless of how one feels about the apparitions and private revelations, this title was actually the question.

It is sad to see that the controversies about perceptions of some of things that were written decades after the apparitions has overshadowed Mary, the Mother of God.

Everybody who immediately started going into conspiracy theories (rather than responding to them) should really reflect and think what was done: you were asked whether Mary was worthy of devotion under an approved title (out of many!) and you said "no" or otherwise disregarded her.

There are many titles and most of us do not use them all, but to deny any of them explicitly or set them against each other is blasphemy.

It is shocking to see Our Lady of Lourdes being set against Our Lady of Fatima. Those are titles of the same saint! Unlike theology examining the Trinity or the Incarnation, Mary is incredibly simple (to understand): she is a human born of human parents. She is a person, filled with grace, and an example of the perfect devotion to God her entire life. This should be simple: her titles are many and deserved and we shouldn't pretend like they refer to different people. They don't. They refer to her.

And that is what the question was about explicitly.

[Elizabeth.2]

Here is the rosary I said I was going to make in honour of Our Lady of Fatima

All metal is solid sterling silver (including all wire). It has a Pardon Crucifix, an Our Lady of Fatima centre, and Dumortierite beads (A grade quality).

For the beads, I chose these because they are dark, natural, high quality, and have blue in them.

Ah, nice.  I have an off-topic sacramental noble metal/jewel question, Insanis.  Can you or anyone else direct me to a legit Catholic source which treats of wedding bands.  What graces, purpose meaning - - the whole scoop.
I can't find much online, because I don't know who to read.  My priest in Confession last night is not fluent enough in English and too long of a line to get an answer.