What’s the deal with dancing?

Started by TandJ, September 14, 2021, 05:03:30 PM

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nmoerbeek

Quote from: TandJ on September 14, 2021, 05:03:30 PM
I came across an article by the FSSP saying dancing is condemned by the Church. This was surprising to me because plenty of solid Catholic Colleges promote swing dancing and I know of a lot of traditional Catholics who put on "Civil War Balls" with decent, modest dancing. Is there something official I'm not aware of?

There is a lot of ink on this.

The Short answer is both yes and no.

Yes, there was a decree by the Vatican in 1916 on the matter of Dancing and the attendance of Priests and Religious.  These has now been abrogated with the 1983 code of Canon Law.

Yes, in moral theology manuals some dancing can be identified as sinful, any dance where the bodies of two unmarried people where closely touching, even the waltz, where considered sinful for the unmarried.

Yes, Saints have condemned lots of dancing.  It is associated with reveling, which in Galatians 5 is mentioned as one of the Sins that will prevent you from entering the Kingdom of God.

However,

There are many dances that do not involve close touches and observe Christian Modesty and if one opens most books of Moral Theology would find such dances permitted even to the unmarried.

"Let me, however, beg of Your Beatitude...
not to think so much of what I have written, as of my good and kind intentions. Please look for the truths of which I speak rather than for beauty of expression. Where I do not come up to your expectations, pardon me, and put my shortcomings down, please, to lack of time and stress of business." St. Bonaventure, From the Preface of Holiness of Life.

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TandJ

Sounds like reveling is the equivalent of nightclubs correct? Lots of immodesty and drunkenness

Philip G.

Quote from: Melkor on September 22, 2021, 09:07:53 AM

What are you even talking about? :huh:

Correct me if I am wrong, but was it not you who in the past objected/threw a fit when I stated that Christ judges nations/cultures in part as a whole?  If so, you rightly wouldn't understand a thing I post(ed), because it is formed in part from that perspective. 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

nmoerbeek

Quote from: TandJ on September 22, 2021, 05:45:36 PM
Sounds like reveling is the equivalent of nightclubs correct? Lots of immodesty and drunkenness

That is a good modern correlation.  You could also include the idea of house parties for youth (keggers for example).

Where getting together with others  falls on the spectrum of virtue and vice depends on the circumstance.  Lawful pleasures (food, drink, music used but not engaged in immoderately) and Friends can come together and culminate in a good communal expression of right recreation that may include: games and dancing. Right recreation is a virtue.

However some games are always bad and some dances are always bad for two unmarried people of similar age.
"Let me, however, beg of Your Beatitude...
not to think so much of what I have written, as of my good and kind intentions. Please look for the truths of which I speak rather than for beauty of expression. Where I do not come up to your expectations, pardon me, and put my shortcomings down, please, to lack of time and stress of business." St. Bonaventure, From the Preface of Holiness of Life.

Apostolate:
http://www.alleluiaaudiobooks.com/
Contributor:
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/
Lay Association:
http://www.militiatempli.net/

LausTibiChriste

Quote from: nmoerbeek on September 23, 2021, 08:25:32 AM
Quote from: TandJ on September 22, 2021, 05:45:36 PM
Sounds like reveling is the equivalent of nightclubs correct? Lots of immodesty and drunkenness
some dances are always bad for two unmarried people of similar age.

So if someone fancies cougars it's ok?



Asking for a friend
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nmoerbeek

Quote from: LausTibiChriste on September 23, 2021, 03:38:20 PM
Quote from: nmoerbeek on September 23, 2021, 08:25:32 AM
Quote from: TandJ on September 22, 2021, 05:45:36 PM
Sounds like reveling is the equivalent of nightclubs correct? Lots of immodesty and drunkenness
some dances are always bad for two unmarried people of similar age.

So if someone fancies cougars it's ok?



Asking for a friend

:toth: Yes, I probably should have worded that better.

I was specifically thinking about a man dancing with his Mother or Grandmother, or a young man dancing with a child.  I suppose it would be better to say don't dance with someone that nature if left to its own could take its course with desire.
"Let me, however, beg of Your Beatitude...
not to think so much of what I have written, as of my good and kind intentions. Please look for the truths of which I speak rather than for beauty of expression. Where I do not come up to your expectations, pardon me, and put my shortcomings down, please, to lack of time and stress of business." St. Bonaventure, From the Preface of Holiness of Life.

Apostolate:
http://www.alleluiaaudiobooks.com/
Contributor:
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/
Lay Association:
http://www.militiatempli.net/

ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez

Quote from: LausTibiChriste on September 23, 2021, 03:38:20 PM
So if someone fancies cougars it's ok?



Asking for a friend

I'd say there are deeper problems than the dancing.   :rofl:
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Philip G.

#53
What is the deal with dancing?  Dancing, and fighting/warring are inseparable.  They are inseparable, but they are by no means married.   They can be used for good, and they can be used for evil.  They are inseparable, but that doesn't mean they must be tied at the hip.  When they are tied at the hip, you know evil is present, just like in that popular video game fortnite.  They are dancing, and killing.  That is why these covid nurses are dancing.  They are dancing because they are killing.

This is one end of the spectrum.  The other end of the spectrum is also empire/world domination, but under a different form, one which is tolerable.  That is the kind this OP is wondering about.  How can clerics, who are generally pro military, be against all forms of dancing?  And, how can "hippies"(likely derived from dancing), who are all about "free love"/promiscuous sex, be against all forms of war?  The reason is because the hippies war is in its lustful bodily movements proximate the dance.  And, the reason these clerics are against dancing is because they are pro evangelization by way of the sword, which is also an abomination. 

The ideal is characterized by both dancing and warring each being done in the right way "within their own" sphere.  It is not until the end of the world, when Jesus returns triumphant will righteous dancing and warring be one and the same act.  Scripture says our swords will be turned into plowshares.  I don't think a collection of village men with pitchforks defending their village/families need any band/music playing in order to muster up the courage to defend what is theirs.  Not until the end of the world is the marriage of these two acts to be justified. 

For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

Melkor

Quote from: Philip G. on September 24, 2021, 10:30:56 AM
What is the deal with dancing?  Dancing, and fighting/warring are inseparable.  They are inseparable, but they are by no means married.   They can be used for good, and they can be used for evil.  They are inseparable, but that doesn't mean they must be tied at the hip.  When they are tied at the hip, you know evil is present, just like in that popular video game fortnite.  They are dancing, and killing.  That is why these covid nurses are dancing.  They are dancing because they are killing.

This is one end of the spectrum.  The other end of the spectrum is also empire/world domination, but under a different form, one which is tolerable.  That is the kind this OP is wondering about.  How can clerics, who are generally pro military, be against all forms of dancing?  And, how can "hippies"(likely derived from dancing), who are all about "free love"/promiscuous sex, be against all forms of war?  The reason is because the hippies war is in its lustful bodily movements proximate the dance.  And, the reason these clerics are against dancing is because they are pro evangelization by way of the sword, which is also an abomination. 

The ideal is characterized by both dancing and warring each being done in the right way "within their own" sphere.  It is not until the end of the world, when Jesus returns triumphant will righteous dancing and warring be one and the same act.  Scripture says our swords will be turned into plowshares.  I don't think a collection of village men with pitchforks defending their village/families need any band/music playing in order to muster up the courage to defend what is theirs.  Not until the end of the world is the marriage of these two acts to be justified. 



:rofl:

Bold is my own.
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Philip G.

#55
Quote from: Melkor on September 24, 2021, 12:19:07 PM
Quote from: Philip G. on September 24, 2021, 10:30:56 AM
What is the deal with dancing?  Dancing, and fighting/warring are inseparable.  They are inseparable, but they are by no means married.   They can be used for good, and they can be used for evil.  They are inseparable, but that doesn't mean they must be tied at the hip.  When they are tied at the hip, you know evil is present, just like in that popular video game fortnite.  They are dancing, and killing.  That is why these covid nurses are dancing.  They are dancing because they are killing.

This is one end of the spectrum.  The other end of the spectrum is also empire/world domination, but under a different form, one which is tolerable.  That is the kind this OP is wondering about.  How can clerics, who are generally pro military, be against all forms of dancing?  And, how can "hippies"(likely derived from dancing), who are all about "free love"/promiscuous sex, be against all forms of war?  The reason is because the hippies war is in its lustful bodily movements proximate the dance.  And, the reason these clerics are against dancing is because they are pro evangelization by way of the sword, which is also an abomination. 

The ideal is characterized by both dancing and warring each being done in the right way "within their own" sphere.  It is not until the end of the world, when Jesus returns triumphant will righteous dancing and warring be one and the same act.  Scripture says our swords will be turned into plowshares.  I don't think a collection of village men with pitchforks defending their village/families need any band/music playing in order to muster up the courage to defend what is theirs.  Not until the end of the world is the marriage of these two acts to be justified. 



:rofl:

Bold is my own.

I don't recall any other time in history when medical "professionals" felt the need to create/promote/broadcast an official dance to further their mission.  The dancing entirely gives it away in my opinion.  Having medical professionals killing people while at the same time thinking they do good is a perfect storm.  It is like when israelis soilders annually attack/kill off Palestinians down to just the right size in a totally unfair fight. 

 
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

Philip G.

#56
This theory may also be the reason why the modernists have females dancing gracefully at the "sacrifice" of our Lord in the mass, where we are purported to receive "grace".  By doing such a thing to the mass, the are likely causing a lack of grace from the sacrament.
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12

Philip G.

Covid nurse at min 9 to min 10 of the video says "I am literally coming here(the hospital) every day and watching them(her fellow nurses) kill them(patients)" as she goes down the list of mistakes her fellow nurses have made, while the nurses are dancing in the background.  It is a powerful message/imagery.  Yes, these nurses are dancing, because they are killing.  It is like the video game fortnite.  It happens in the boxing ring all the time.  Boxers don't plan on dancing, because a knockout is never planned.  But, the dancing happens right on cue. 

https://www.banned.video/watch?id=615b8a51baf9982cf57796da
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12