Are men naturally.............

[diaduit]

Let's evaluate a real world example:

It's known from common sense and now psych studies that children do best with 2 parents.  In fact the bulk of violent offenders in jail were raised by single mothers.  So knowing this, let's evaluate a real world example:

There is a divorce.  Will the woman:

1.  Agree to joint custody and forgo some child support because it's best for the kids?
2.  Insist on full custody and full child support?

James, I know what you've asked is very very common behavior for women which I find disgusting but hand on heart I also know very many dad's who walk out for a younger model , make the ex wife beg for pennies , doesn't bother to show up for visitation, carries a grudge against the ex for existing and sometimes pretends he never had the first family when the model begins to feel her clock ticking and he has another child. I know 3 trad men who has done this never mind in the secular world.

[Chestertonian]

I'm wondering what the point is to asking these questions.  we're all inclined to be selfish

[james03]

James, I know what you've asked is very very common behavior for women which I find disgusting but hand on heart I also know very many dad's who walk out for a younger model , make the ex wife beg for pennies , doesn't bother to show up for visitation, carries a grudge against the ex for existing and sometimes pretends he never had the first family when the model begins to feel her clock ticking and he has another child. I know 3 trad men who has done this never mind in the secular world.

We all know about the exceptions, including me.  But the OP is talking about men in general so I ask IN GENERAL.  The evidence is clear, women in the bulk of divorces ask for and receive full custody, even though this GREATLY increases the risks for suicide, drugs, teen pregnancy, crime, and other deviant behaviour.

[james03]

His wife decided to instead buy a horse using that money (without consulting him), and now instead of putting the new engine in his truck, he gets to pay additional money and time to fence in the rest of their property.

Dude doesn't wear the pants in that marriage.  Rule number one lads, separate accounts.  Pay her an allowance based on a budget.

[Greg]

In some aspects of my life I am pretty selfish,  go to bed late and sleep 8 hours regardless) in other aspects very generous and unselfish, (help people a lot)

[Gardener]

His wife decided to instead buy a horse using that money (without consulting him), and now instead of putting the new engine in his truck, he gets to pay additional money and time to fence in the rest of their property.

Dude doesn't wear the pants in that marriage.  Rule number one lads, separate accounts.  Pay her an allowance based on a budget.

He really doesn't. He is a sad little man whose bitterness is palpable. She's a divorcee and he married her when he was in the army (he was a commo guy, so not exactly an alpha type). Took on her kids. Her daughter? Well he tried to put his foot down once and she lied to CPS and said he was abusive in order to get her way. Took him 2 years to get that straightened out. Almost cost him his career.

I'm not worried about my wife doing anything like that. She feels guilty about spending money on groceries. Her uncle sends her an annual bday check of $30. I had to demand she spend it on herself instead of just putting it in our account.

[Greg]

Me neither.  My wife can have as much money as she likes.  She's a very wise spender of money.

All my worldly goods I thee endower.

I like it that I can trust her.  Helps me sleep well at night.

[drummerboy]

Point: I know a "trad" husband and father who literally will not give up his dream "apostolate" despite the fact that it's an abject business failure and his family has no money to pay their bills. He will not seek full time employment because every opportunity thrown at him "isn't Catholic enough" (whatever the heck that means).

You're just not holy enough to see that he's doing God's will, he's holding on despite all the temptations of the devil and the world.   

Ah, my favorite type of trad man, the holy bum, who doesn't let his conscience trouble him that he'll sire a huge family but doesn't find it necessary to work hard to support them like his forefathers did, but relishes in the thought that he's so holy because he's following the traditions of his forefathers.  Impossible to get through to that mindset.  My wife was talking to somebody like that before we were met/married, was staying at home to take over the dad's "business."  Thank God she found me instead! 

[james03]

State In Life.  The man should have been a monk if he wanted to do these things.

Consider this:

1.  A man wants to watch some sports on a Saturday.  He considers his family, prompted by a love of God (Charity), and instead throws the kids in the back of the truck and takes them and the wife out on a picnic.

2.  A nun says a 15 decade rosary and a litany to the Saints.

I argue that the sacrifice of (1) is more meritorious as the man is impacting the lives of several Catholics who will find a Catholic life a good thing and want to stay Catholic after they leave home.

[diaduit]

James, I know what you've asked is very very common behavior for women which I find disgusting but hand on heart I also know very many dad's who walk out for a younger model , make the ex wife beg for pennies , doesn't bother to show up for visitation, carries a grudge against the ex for existing and sometimes pretends he never had the first family when the model begins to feel her clock ticking and he has another child. I know 3 trad men who has done this never mind in the secular world.

We all know about the exceptions, including me.  But the OP is talking about men in general so I ask IN GENERAL.  The evidence is clear, women in the bulk of divorces ask for and receive full custody, even though this GREATLY increases the risks for suicide, drugs, teen pregnancy, crime, and other deviant behaviour.

Fair enough

[james03]

the holy bum

You get the sense that they are moslem Catholics: If Allah wills it.

[Gardener]

the holy bum

You get the sense that they are moslem Catholics: If Allah wills it.

It is indeed similar to the emotional fatalism which leads to a sort of semi-Pelagian mindset: I desire and it's an objective good, therefore it must be God's will; why isn't God supplying the means to fulfill His will? I'll double down and then He'll give me what I need!

As the old joke punchline goes, "...I sent 3 boats!"

[drummerboy]

the holy bum

You get the sense that they are moslem Catholics: If Allah wills it.

It is indeed similar to the emotional fatalism which leads to a sort of semi-Pelagian mindset: I desire and it's an objective good, therefore it must be God's will; why isn't God supplying the means to fulfill His will? I'll double down and then He'll give me what I need!

As the old joke punchline goes, "...I sent 3 boats!"

Or they just use "God's will" as an excuse for their ineptness. 

[Carleendiane]

Obrien, I must say, you are a brave woman coming in here with a thread like this, lol! So far, I've found the male reaction actually leaning to tolerance and not anger. But as I type my responses, the tide could turn

Really, I find it impossible to say which is more selfish. Mankind's fallen nature was not MORE fallen for the males. They did not receive a double dose of "fallen". So maybe both male and female selfishness just APPEARS to be more, pertaining to the opposite sex. As, I think it was Munda said, our areas of selfishness differ. So, our self interests differ, therefore, they actually DO stand out to our spouse.... though if weighed, the overall selfishness would be comparable. A man  might be selfish in an area a woman is normally generous in,  but I am willing to bet, that goes both ways. This is more addressing man/woman and more/less. In general. Of course we all know some truly selfish men. Some truly selfish women. Plenty of both. Any man, or any woman could make a case against whatever gender they wish, but that is merely opinion filtered by life experience and limited exposure.... such as location, culture, etc. Does that^^^^^ blathering even make sense? Come on guys..be charitable