Revised opinion on Covid vaccine safety

[Greg]

If the vaccine had been safe and effective, there would be dead silence here about the antivax sentiment being wrong.

And if my grandmother had testicles, she'd be my grandfather.

In an alternative universe where you would have been right, then we would have been wrong.  What a dumbass comment.  We are in this universe where you were wrong.

We didn't say the vaccine was not safe and effective because we were guessing on a coin flip on were a going on a hunch.  We said it because common sense tells, those who possess it, that no novel medicine rapidly produced and rolled out without a suitable time period to test it can possibly claim to be either of those.  We knew "safe and effective" was a lie.  It had to be. There was no way to know that in such a short space of time.

'Bum-rushed jab of unknown efficacy and unknown safety' was the truth.  'Only take it if you are 5% or more likely to die of Covid', was much closer to the truth.

[lauermar]

I do not need to apologize for taking a vaccine for a job. I have taken vaccines since kindergarten as have all of you. No one else but this board thinks it is cowardice. Our family did what we had to do in to work and support ourselves.

I am free to vote or not vote how I please. There is nothing in Canon law that tells me to vote for a particular politician. Got that?

That said, our family supports Trump. However, I am not blind to his serial infidelities which this board ignores. Sooner or later women come forward to ruin the life of any cheater. Such are the wages of sin.

Covid vaccine manufacturers have had some lawsuit trouble in Germany and Thailand. Their laws may not be as protective to pharma companies as the USA.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/biontech-faces-first-german-lawsuit-over-alleged-covid-vaccine-side-effects-2023-06-11/

[lauermar]

Josh I agree its better late than never but what I find with the regret camp is that they do not acknowledge their actions were the nail in the coffin for freedom of movement by establishing a vaccine cert for travel which is coming back at some stage in the very near future with next fake pandemic.

  Now if the regret camp are humble enough to apologise and learn from their own behaviours, that would ensure a better commitment to resisting going forward.  However what is very common in the regret camp (not you Josh)is an attitude of oh maybe I shouldn't have taken that jab as its affecting ME but lets all forget my arrogant and malicious attacks (most of my ex covid friends and family)so that in the future when the next fake pandemic arrives its a case of - I don't do accountability and therefore I will become that same person again. 

When we leave confession after telling our sins and getting forgiven part of the deal is to do penance and repair the damage done.  God in His wisdom understands that this is character building and makes the soul stronger to resist temptation.

I see this alot with my pre covid circle, once the country opened up its back to having the craic and going on holidays. Without introspection and coming to an understanding of our wrongdoings, these people will do it again.  I include myself in that as some of my flawed behaviours especially anger needed to be checked and I am working on it.

I'm glad Lauremar has come to her senses but I see her posts as an window into how those covid ninnies whose mindset hasn't changed since covid was over.....these behaviours are only lurking under the surface until the squeeze come again if they don't have the humility to see what they did was wrong, Lauremar regrets her decision to vaccinate for herself alone and not for what her hysterical actions during the whole covid, did to society.

Don't speak for me. Our family vaccinated as we have always done since kindergarten. We trusted the government was telling us the truth and we believed them at the time. We regret they lied about the pandemic and the vaccine to society. We know we were lucky not to have untoward reactions as others have had.  Our family is not opposed to all vaccines, which IS a hysterical position. Vaccines have been required in Catholic schools for as long as we've been alive and you know it!  To insinuate that it's a mortal sin to take vaccines, which requires going to confession, is a lie.

[KreKre]

I am free to vote or not vote how I please. There is nothing in Canon law that tells me to vote for a particular politician. Got that?

That's not entirely correct. Voting for an evil candidate (for reasons other than to prevent another candidate who is even more evil from getting power) is a mortal sin (unless one lacks knowledge about it). While God gives you freedom to commit sin, you shouldn't do it, because that offends Him and causes your eternal ruin. Furthermore, not voting when you have an opportunity to prevent a great evil is also a sin (though it might not be a mortal one, depending on your intentions and knowledge).

Without doubt, Biden is a much greater evil than Trump, as imperfect as the latter might be.

Getting vaccinated, however, is not a sin. Regarding covid, in retrospective, it's clear even to those who got vaccinated, that it was a foolish thing to do. But it was not a sin. However, pressuring others to get vaccinated, especially when the vaccine is new and untested, is a sin, and so is silencing and censoring different opinions about vaccines.

[clau clau]

Getting vaccinated, however, is not a sin.

Taking an untested vaccine could be regarded as a sin against prudence.
The Covid19 vaccine was untested.

[LausTibiChriste]

Taking the COVID jab was 100% a sin and you have to be a right bloody idiot to think otherwise

[KreKre]

Taking the COVID jab was 100% a sin and you have to be a right bloody idiot to think otherwise

You seem to never miss an opportunity to insult or belittle those you dislike or disagree with. Your words do no harm me, because you're just some stranger on the internet whose approval I don't care about, but know that you are painting a very ugly picture of yourself, and there is really no need for it. 

Maybe your mind will change if you hear it from someone you don't have a knee-jerk reaction to:

Taking an untested vaccine could be regarded as a sin against prudence.
The Covid19 vaccine was untested.

Whether vaccine was untested matters very little. The fact that authorities said it was safe (regardless of the fact they lied) means that it was not a sin to take the vaccine. One places faith in the rightful authorities on matters one is not knowledgeable about. You can perhaps say that being fooled in such a manner is a sign of stupidity, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree, but it is certainly not a sin. The blame for any ill effects of the vaccine lies entirely on those who lied, censored information, and created pressure and panic.

But even if were objectively a grave matter (and it wasn't), the circumstances surrounding covid were such that people were under tremendous pressure and brainwashing to take it, taking any culpability from them. Many of us were lucky to be surrounded by people who were skeptical of it, so we heard all arguments, for and against vaccination, but most people weren't that fortunate. They are victims. Those who contributed to creating this pressure, that's another story. Those who called people idiots and conspiracy theorists for not taking the vaccine, those who demanded vaccination passports, threatened to fire their employees, banned people from getting healthcare they needed, etc., and even preached about the vaccination obligation from the pulpit, they share the guilt for it.

[LausTibiChriste]

Never miss an opportunity? You've been on this forum less than a month.

Way to out yourself, Chris.

[KreKre]

Never miss an opportunity? You've been on this forum less than a month.

I've read the forum sufficiently to notice a pattern. A week was more than sufficient for that.

Way to out yourself, Chris.

You're absolutely delusional, but I have already corrected you countless times in vain that I see no point in doing so again. I give you permission to call me Chris, if that makes you happy. I've been called worse things than "Chris", it's quite a nice name, reminds me of our Lord.

[clau clau]

Whether vaccine was untested matters very little.

You are delusional.  Blocked.

[KreKre]

Whether vaccine was untested matters very little.

You are delusional.  Blocked.

If you quote me without the rest of what I wrote, then I can see how you might call me delusional. But apparently you stopped reading the moment your knee jerked.

By the way, I never, ever pressured anyone into taking the vaccine. In fact, I was always skeptical of it, and whenever someone asked my opinion about it it was always: "it's a personal choice, I am not a doctor, I don't know about it to competently advise you, but I will not take it myself, because I don't think I'm at great risk". I have compassion for people who got vaccinated, some of whom are very dear to me personally. I am certain they haven't committed a sin by taking the vaccine. If you think I deserve to "shit my pants while hanging", you are greatly unjust, but I won't argue with you. Besides, you've blocked me already.

[Bonaventure]

Our family did what we had to do in to work and support ourselves.

@lauermar

I would say leave it at that and do not worry about trying to convince others of the licitness of what actions you decided to take.

I know of a traditional priest in a care home. Nearly 90 years old.

He was given two options:

1. Do not get the vaccine, and as such, we will never let you out of your room. You'll be stuck here, won't be able to leave to say Masses, hear confessions and won't be allowed to have access to other hospitals and homes for anointing etc.
2. Get the vaccine, so he could have a ministry.

Despite his reservations, he went with #2.

"I won't allow their games to stop me from being a priest. If I die, all the better. Dona ei requiem!"

[TradGranny]

We trusted the government was telling us the truth

rotflol

[TradGranny]

HCQ fell into disuse for humans years ago as new medications with better efficacy and a cleaner side effect profile were developed for those conditions that the drug was indicated to treat. This was pre-Covid.

That's untrue. Are you sure you are a rep for Big Pharma? If you were, you would know about the numerous people with Lupus and other forms of MCCTD for whom HCQ is still the primary treatment.

[Greg]

Our family did what we had to do in to work and support ourselves.

@lauermar

I would say leave it at that and do not worry about trying to convince others of the licitness of what actions you decided to take.

I know of a traditional priest in a care home. Nearly 90 years old.

He was given two options:

1. Do not get the vaccine, and as such, we will never let you out of your room. You'll be stuck here, won't be able to leave to say Masses, hear confessions and won't be allowed to have access to other hospitals and homes for anointing etc.
2. Get the vaccine, so he could have a ministry.

Despite his reservations, he went with #2.

"I won't allow their games to stop me from being a priest. If I die, all the better. Dona ei requiem!"

You should never give into blackmail.  That's weak.

There was no rational reason to not let him out of his room.  Therefore the people threatening him were either idiots or evil.  Neither should be obeyed.  You should resist evil commands and not comply with them.  Otherwise you empower evil even more.  In point of fact they WOULD have let him out of his room, because all his fellow priests and other elderly people who resisted are today out of their rooms.

If more people had said "piss off" then they would not have been able to coerce as many people as they did.