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#91

General Catholic Discussion / Re: What if you were pope?

Last post by KreKre - May 18, 2025, 02:40:06 PM

All other things being equal, it is much better for a priest to be celibate than married. Therefore, nothing is gained with such a compromise, only lost.

#92

General Catholic Discussion / Re: What if you were pope?

Last post by Melkite - May 18, 2025, 02:20:45 PM

The state of virginity and celibacy is superior to that of the married state; it is incumbent upon those in the clerical and religious state to seek to attain perfection and sanctity, not only for themselves but for the general faithful to have the example of sanctity before them in order that they may both admire and imitate in the degree possible.

This is part of the reason I see a valuable compromise in allowing assistant priests to be married while retaining celibacy for those who are pastors of parishes.  In my own parish, just due to circumstance rather than any intent, married priests have only served as assistants.  Every pastor, including the present one, has been a celibate priest.  I'll fight to the death, metaphorically, that celibacy is not necessary to be an amazing priest.  Yet still, that celibacy uniquely signifies the self-sacrificial character inherent in the priesthood is undeniable.

#93

General News and Discussion / Re: US economic review

Last post by Miriam_M - May 18, 2025, 11:06:05 AM

The bottom line, with regard to the economy, crime, immigration, voting procedures, military readiness, and leftist ideology in all of our social institutions -- is that Trump is facing really more than a 30-year legacy of cultural deterioration.  Reagan and the Bushes may have held it back, bringing intervening retreats, but the devolution began full throttle in the 1970's, with sloppiness, softness, and stupidity in governance reigning supreme.

I would argue in fact that softness in our social-moral priorities led all the other declines, including the economic one because they are all tied together. The fact that Trump is able to get anything done whatsoever to change economic structures and priorities shows the difference between his actual leadership and the pretense of leadership in many of his predecessors, who let the bureaucracy and social institutions lead for them. 

#94

General Catholic Discussion / Re: What if you were pope?

Last post by Miriam_M - May 18, 2025, 10:53:04 AM

9. Remove the active homosexuals from the priesthood and decree that they will no longer be admitted to any seminaries.

Technically that is already decreed, for example by Benedict XVI on 4 November 2005. The amount in which it is put into force depends from seminary to seminary though.

I'm aware -- but also aware that a reinforcement is sometimes needed when there has or had been flagrant violations in oversight for a long period of time. The laity has been confused (in my opinion, was deliberately made to be confused) over the Church's body of doctrine on human sexuality, and that confusion was made far worse by Francis I (also deliberately).

To me, this is only one of many matters that Leo XIV may have to correct publicly during his pontificate.

One could wonder why I didn't include in my list papal reprimands for currently ordained men, ranging from priest to cardinals, living a homosexual lifestyle. These men, however, know full well what they are doing, what the Church's permanent doctrine is, and what the Commandments are. Unlike the laity, they don't technically need any catechetical correction. If they choose to live in mortal sin, they will damn themselves, and no pope needs to spend a second telling them the obvious.
 

#95

General Catholic Discussion / Re: The Papacy, Revisiting the...

Last post by Michael Wilson - May 18, 2025, 10:35:22 AM

I wanted also to expand a little on the issue taken by Aethel against the College of Cardinals. It is true that the College of Cardinals is not part of the essential structure of the Church, and that the Church existed for many Centuries before it came to be constituted by the Popes, as a very great aid in his administration of the governing of the Mystical Body. But the same could be said of Church Councils, there were no Church Councils before the 4th Century; and even if no more Church Councils were ever to be held again, there is no denying that they serve/served a very useful purpose in the teaching of the faith and the condemning of heresies. The same could be said of Religious Orders; they did not emerge until the 4th C. Yet, how vital and useful they have been and still are, for the practice of the Evangelical Counsels, and the attainment of Sanctity for those who are seeking it. Also, what great services they render the Church, by the prayers and sacrifices of the Contemplative orders, and the works of Charity undertaken everywhere by the active orders. The Church which is a living spiritual organism, as it grows and expands, is capable of providing itself with the institutions it needs to fulfill its commission for the sanctification and salvation of souls. 

#96

General Catholic Discussion / Re: What if you were pope?

Last post by Michael Wilson - May 18, 2025, 10:24:13 AM

The state of virginity and celibacy is superior to that of the married state; it is incumbent upon those in the clerical and religious state to seek to attain perfection and sanctity, not only for themselves but for the general faithful to have the example of sanctity before them in order that they may both admire and imitate in the degree possible.

#97

General Catholic Discussion / Re: What if you were pope?

Last post by Santantonio - May 18, 2025, 08:52:55 AM

It is good for priests to be celibate.

Good?  Yes.  Necessary?  No.

A man with a family simply does not make for a good priest, his priorities constantly in conflict. Or, if he strives to be a good priest, he will make a poor husband and father. But most likely, he will be bad at everything.

This is a purely utilitarian, naturalist mindset.  What makes a man a good father and husband?  Is it of his own talent, or by God's grace?  What makes a man a good priest?  Is it of his own talent, or by God's grace?  If the latter, can the God of infinite grace not give sufficient grace to a man to be both a husband, father and priest successfully?

There are many married priests who are or have been excellent.  They couldn't do it on their own. It is only because God called them to both that they were able to excel in it.

People who advocate for relaxing the celibacy vows are either intentionally trying to destroy the Church or are just clueless.

If the Church existed for nearly 1000 years without mandatory celibacy anywhere within it, then it can't possibly be of necessity.  Doesn't it seem slightly blasphemous to say that mere clerical incontinence could destroy the Church, when Christ himself said not even the gates of hell would?

I would argue that someone who thinks a married prebyterate, of necessity, can't work are themselves clueless on this issue.

Well, you know, it goes back much further than 1,000 years. Although it is a complicated topic.
I don't like posting wikipedia but for any readers, here is a general breakdown:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy_in_the_Catholic_Church

For one anyway, I am in favor of leaving the current discipline unchanged.

#98

The Coffee Pot / Re: Our cross-country trip

Last post by Bernadette - May 18, 2025, 08:15:12 AM

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#99

The Bookstore / Re: Normandt' Catholic Meditat...

Last post by Normandt - May 18, 2025, 04:18:16 AM

110. To meditate on


Someone has this question for Jesus:
"'Lord, will only a few people be saved?' He answered them, 'Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough.'" Luke, chapter 13, verses 23 to 24

We will be saved to the extent that we find the narrow door.
There are many people who wonder, in the light of this passage, whether their families, their friends will be saved if they don't find this door, if they don't open to the will of God. The question is launched. Do we want to live this passage toward, then in God's Heart? Jesus tells us how easy it is:
"It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." Matthew, chapter 19, verse 24

Jesus says that it's necessary to go through the hole of a needle to enter the Kingdom of God. The camel succeeds easily. This is a message he sends us. It invites us to go beyond the conceptions, the sense that we usually give to things and to meditate on what he proposes.

The narrow door, the hole of the needle, is to be aware of what God asks of us. We must dare to rise and walk in Jesus's steps, so that we may always find the unique pathway to truth and Love that leads to the Father's house. Anyone can find it, because that's the easiest thing to do.

Let's ask Jesus if we are on the right path. Are we on the right track, Jesus? Are we doing what is right? Do we live in the present moment as something precious, to cherish and celebrate with good deeds and good words?

Are we watchful of the poor? Not only to throw money at him, but to help him on his way and help him walk in your footsteps, Jesus. The answer Jesus offers us is in our heart.

The new American Bible, 2011-2014
Book: ... for Love, Normand Thomas

#100

General Catholic Discussion / Re: Habemus papam!

Last post by Bonaventure - May 17, 2025, 11:16:15 PM

S.O. A. B.!!!  I just figured out how Leo could fulfill the Peter the Roman part of the prophecy, and I'm only half kidding.  He was born in the US, so very likely circumcised.  If that's the case, then he is probably the 2nd circumcised pope in the history of the Church - St. Peter himself being the first.

That is a very astute, quaint, and particular observation.