Author Topic: Why did God send the Great Famine followed by the Great Plague?  (Read 180 times)

Offline MaximGun

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Why did God send the Great Famine followed by the Great Plague?
« on: October 14, 2021, 02:06:08 AM »
Why did 14th Century European peasants envy the dead?


7 years of famine followed by the Black Death, killing half of Europe who remained after the famine.

What apostacy merited this?
 
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Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Why did God send the Great Famine followed by the Great Plague?
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2021, 12:39:27 PM »
The theology behind this, from your perspective, is that every natural disaster and negative biological event is a direct manifestation of God's displeasure with mankind (i.e., a chastisement).  Although some would argue against such a one-to-one correspondence, it is possible to subscribe to that view.  In that case, there is the collective sin of mankind that should be considered as worthy of chastisement. The good and the bad alike received chastisements during ancient times (OT). 

Just as God often delays vindicating those falsely accused (sometimes until after their deaths), so He also is free to delay the punishment of the false accusers (until a general chastisement, if that serves His plan).  That's one point.

A second point is that death of the body, the earthly presence, the "voice" of that being, serves a divine purpose, just as the earthly life of that person was intended to serve a divine purpose.  That is a reality, also, for both the good and the bad.  Holy men and women, and evil men and women, died from The Black Death.  I would myself argue that the Black Death served a divine purpose as a model of Catholic fidelity -- contrasting with today's shameful rejection of disease, suffering, and death by practicing Catholics and their "shepherds."  Pilgrimages continued during that part of the 14th century, with pilgrims dropping dead en route, witnessing to the supremacy and permanence of the eternal faith over the temporality of the body.
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Why did God send the Great Famine followed by the Great Plague?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2021, 12:48:14 PM »
Unfortunately it had the effect that the good and holy priests, monks and nuns died of the plague because they were looking after plague victims.

And the priests who ran off to their country houses and survived were the corrupt and self-serving types.  150 years later and you have The Reformation.

Should we then seek a healthy vibrant Catholic Church, or count our blessings that we are living in the time of Jorge the Apostate?
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Why did God send the Great Famine followed by the Great Plague?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2021, 01:05:01 PM »
Unfortunately it had the effect that the good and holy priests, monks and nuns died of the plague because they were looking after plague victims.

No. Not "unfortunately."  Again, fortunately, such good and holy priests witnessed to their priestly vocation to which they vowed to God Almighty that they would (and today, will) do just that. Like the clerical and lay pilgrims who died en route, those who bring sacraments are "merely" fulfilling their vows to God. They, too, are models of Catholic fidelity, contrasting sharply with so many of today's cowardly priests who approve of or have passively submitted to restrictions -- very often for their own "protection." 
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Why did God send the Great Famine followed by the Great Plague?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2021, 02:21:05 PM »
You appear to be saying that orphans have the best parents.

Was the state of 14th Century Catholic Europe superior in terms of number of souls saved to the present day?

Or is there a stable number of souls saved because God adjusts His mercy according to circumstances?

In other words, in good times with holy priests who are ready to die of the plague, do Catholics need to do more to save themselves?

That is the only way I can see a huge die-off of the good priests and religious as being a desirable thing.

Given what we think is coming down the pipe there will have to be some real heroes among us.


Back on topic do famines and plagues, precede, procede or are they disconnected from sin.  The Bible suggests they tend to affect the generation that is most guilty or they appear at the peak sin levels.  So how bad was the late 13th and early 14th century?
 

Offline Miriam_M

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Re: Why did God send the Great Famine followed by the Great Plague?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2021, 03:05:59 PM »
You appear to be saying that orphans have the best parents.

No, I don't believe I am saying that at all.

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Was the state of 14th Century Catholic Europe superior in terms of number of souls saved to the present day?

How would anyone know that but God?

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Or is there a stable number of souls saved because God adjusts His mercy according to circumstances?

Unknown, but possibly.

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In other words, in good times with holy priests who are ready to die of the plague, do Catholics need to do more to save themselves?

It has always been true -- and the Church has taught this from her beginning -- that more is asked of those who have been given more, yes.  So it's logical to me that much will be asked of those of us believers who happen to be surviving these times, and that we will be asked to witness to the faith for the comfort and re-assurance of those weaker in their faith or newer to it.

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Given what we think is coming down the pipe there will have to be some real heroes among us.

This is true.

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Back on topic do famines and plagues, precede, procede or are they disconnected from sin.  The Bible suggests they tend to affect the generation that is most guilty or they appear at the peak sin levels.  So how bad was the late 13th and early 14th century?

Again, same question that can only be answered by Someone truly omniscient.
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Why did God send the Great Famine followed by the Great Plague?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2021, 06:37:19 PM »

How would anyone know that but God?


From saints, monks, priests writing about the sins of that age I guess.

Did you listen to the video.  Human cannablism and digging up dead bodies to eat them.  That is living envying the dead stuff.

They did that in China too in the 1958 to 1962 famine caused by Mao.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 06:39:33 PM by MaximGun »
 

Offline Aulef

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Re: Why did God send the Great Famine followed by the Great Plague?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2021, 07:11:49 PM »
The Church was filled with problems then. One of the priests here said in a conference: the Church at that time was like a forest made of dry woods and the protestant revolt was like a spark of fire in these woods. The result, we all know...

The most important problems in the clergy were hypertrophy (too many priests per capita) and its mundane attitude: candidates wanted to become part of it mainly due to social status they achieved by it; their spiritual life was weak (little or no life of prayer); it was filled with corruption (simony was widespread and Bishops were living in extreme luxury). Besides, there were abuses in liturgy.

There were other important factors too. Nationalism was rising, the use of local vernacular was increasing (which created more divisions among Catholics from different regions). The Papacy began to be questioned (remember the great schism of the west, the apostasy of England, the corrupt Popes and so on). Parochial life diminished and people began to fulfill their religious duties at different places, which weakened the link between the pastors and their sheep. There were too many myths, legends, fake relics that tainted the image of the Church.

No wonder why the Councils during these times, including Trent, had to, among other things, codify a Missal and a centralized Catechism. They didn't just defend the Church against the protestants. They were also meant to protect the Church from evil within.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 08:55:57 AM by Aulef »
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