Author Topic: China Taiwan, China Australia.  (Read 2014 times)

Offline MaximGun

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #45 on: October 14, 2021, 12:05:39 PM »
Their widespread use is the end of life as we know it.

I would think for the antichrist to show up the use of nukes has to be limited to half a dozen or a dozen cities.
 

Offline Lynne

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #46 on: October 14, 2021, 02:41:56 PM »
Their widespread use is the end of life as we know it.

I would think for the antichrist to show up the use of nukes has to be limited to half a dozen or a dozen cities.
I need to read A Canticle for Leibowitz again.

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In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2021, 02:46:22 PM »
I just found my audiobook for the weekend.  Thanks,

 
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Offline Lynne

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2021, 03:21:48 PM »
I just found my audiobook for the weekend.  Thanks,

Wonderful!

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In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
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Offline Kathleen

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #49 on: October 14, 2021, 03:51:49 PM »
For those saying "that isn't just war" and others saying "I don't agree with CATHOLIC teaching on just war" it would seem to be helpful to have a grasp of the topic first.

From a solid source.

So here goes:

https://catholicism.org/catholic-teaching-just-war.html
 
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Offline james03

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2021, 05:10:14 PM »
Quote
I need to read A Canticle for Leibowitz again.

I found it too nihilistic.  And that's saying something considering I belong to the Ancient and Accepted Order of Misanthropes.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"
 
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Offline Lynne

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2021, 05:16:49 PM »
Quote
I need to read A Canticle for Leibowitz again.

I found it too nihilistic.  And that's saying something considering I belong to the Ancient and Accepted Order of Misanthropes.

I thought the priest that argued against euthanasia was so solidly Catholic (it made me cry) but I could have skipped the part about his pet.

And given that many of us think we're in the End Times, it seems appropriate.
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2021, 06:22:17 PM »
For those saying "that isn't just war" and others saying "I don't agree with CATHOLIC teaching on just war" it would seem to be helpful to have a grasp of the topic first.

From a solid source.

So here goes:

https://catholicism.org/catholic-teaching-just-war.html

Completely useless article as it does not deal with the topic of nukes.

The nature of nuclear weapons changes the entire argument.

This is the issue raised by nuclear deterrence. The possessor of a nuclear weapon is in effect saying to a potential opponent, if you use your nuclear weapon against us, we WILL use ours against you, but not unless you attack us first. The Catholic moralist steps in at this point and declares that it is immoral to threaten to do something that it would be immoral to do. Hence nuclear deterrence is itself immoral.

If it is immoral you know a Catholic state or just a moral state will not use nukes.  Therefore the immoral power wins the war.  It can make any demand it likes and nuke its enemy with no response.  You cannot fight back conventionally because you have just been vapourised.  If you fight convetionally and are winning they can destroy you by nuking you, in which case you still fail the Just War Criteria.  There is a high chance of a catastrophic outcome.

All moral states are thus pacifist.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2021, 07:45:48 PM by MaximGun »
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #53 on: October 14, 2021, 06:23:42 PM »

I found it too nihilistic.  And that's saying something considering I belong to the Ancient and Accepted Order of Misanthropes.

Now I will binge listen and be awake at 5am.
 
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Offline Kathleen

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #54 on: October 14, 2021, 11:18:44 PM »
. . .
This is the issue raised by nuclear deterrence. The possessor of a nuclear weapon is in effect saying to a potential opponent, if you use your nuclear weapon against us, we WILL use ours against you, but not unless you attack us first. The Catholic moralist steps in at this point and declares that it is immoral to threaten to do something that it would be immoral to do. Hence nuclear deterrence is itself immoral.
. . .

Curious, do you have a non-modernist source on the Catholic teaching on nuclear deterrence that you've outlined.
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #55 on: October 15, 2021, 03:04:05 AM »
How can there be a non-modernist source on a weapon only invented in 1945?

We are all modernists with modern thoughts dealing with modern weapons.  Albeit some of us like to frame our religious views traditionally.

Just War Theory never imagined weapons of this level of destruction.  It was assumed that bullets and arrows were progressive weapons which could be stopped as they were operated by men and that wars and individual battles could be weighed in a balance by men with morals.

With nuclear war the outcome is binary and massively destructive.  You cannot use them in small chunks.  You cannot bomb Monte Casino and then regret it but publicise liberating the concentration camps, so people think, well, overall it was for the best.  All wars are judged just or unjust post facto.

With war controlled by machine intelligence Just War Theory will be even more irrelevant if that is possible,
 

Offline Christe Eleison

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Thank you MAXIM! Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #56 on: October 15, 2021, 03:13:23 AM »
I just found my audiobook for the weekend.  Thanks,


This is wonderful, thanks for sharing it with us, Maxim! :thumbsup:
God Bless you & yours! :pray3:
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #57 on: October 15, 2021, 03:13:28 AM »
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I need to read A Canticle for Leibowitz again.

I found it too nihilistic.  And that's saying something considering I belong to the Ancient and Accepted Order of Misanthropes.

I binged for 3 hours and gave up.  Like you I belong to AAOM but not the kind that becomes a Catholic, separates, has an affair, divorces and remarries their wife and then shoots themselves in the head when their said wife dies 40 years later.  As I listened it occured to me that the author was a nut, and manic depressive, so I looked up his life story and I was right

I am more optimistic about death and mass destruction.  I want a novel about the positive side of war and divine chastisement.

A Comet of Comedy.   A Farce about Famine.

« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 03:17:01 AM by MaximGun »
 
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Offline Christe Eleison

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #58 on: October 15, 2021, 03:21:53 AM »
Quote
I need to read A Canticle for Leibowitz again.

I found it too nihilistic.  And that's saying something considering I belong to the Ancient and Accepted Order of Misanthropes.

I binged for 3 hours and gave up.  Like you I belong to AAOM but not the kind that becomes a Catholic, separates, has an affair, divorces and remarries their wife and then shoots themselves in the head when their said wife dies 40 years later.  As I listened it occured to me that the author was a nut, and manic depressive, so I looked up his life story and I was right

I am more optimistic about death and mass destruction.  I want a novel about the positive side of war and divine chastisement.

A Comet of Comedy.   A Farce about Famine.

I have not had a chance to listen to the video you posted. Is the rest of it on you tube as well?
Is it worth to listen to at least 1 or 2 hours of it? Or not worth it all?

Thanks in advance, MG! :)
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: China Taiwan, China Australia.
« Reply #59 on: October 15, 2021, 04:20:52 AM »
Yes it is all on there.

The first part about the novice monk Francis is kind of interesting.  Basically it is a sort of depressive science fiction that tries to repeated the Church after the Fall of Rome to the modern nuclear age projected 1800 years into the future.  Lots of repeat, but no rhyme.

It starts well and that is why I listened for 3 hours.
 
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