Fatima's Portugal Problem

Started by james03, May 29, 2021, 10:43:03 AM

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MaximGun

#225
October 16, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Quote from: LausTibiChriste on October 16, 2021, 10:47:12 AM
I wish we had a separate forum for prophecy talk...it's all so tiresome.

Why is prophecy all the rage now? In all my readings Catholics never paid this much attention to it. But now we do?

Because we need a hell of a lot of people killed, or scared out of their wits, for the Church to find its feet.

GiftOfGod

#226
October 16, 2021, 08:06:42 PM
Quote from: MaximGun on October 16, 2021, 04:03:38 PM
Quote from: LausTibiChriste on October 16, 2021, 10:47:12 AM
I wish we had a separate forum for prophecy talk...it's all so tiresome.

Why is prophecy all the rage now? In all my readings Catholics never paid this much attention to it. But now we do?

Because we need a hell of a lot of people killed, or scared out of their wits, for the Church to find its feet.
The problem with prophecies is that most don't turn out true. That makes people suspect them and the Church to be full of it.
Quote from: Maximilian on December 30, 2021, 11:15:48 AM
Quote from: Goldfinch on December 30, 2021, 10:36:10 AM
Quote from: Innocent Smith on December 30, 2021, 10:25:55 AM
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists. Period.
Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.
We could compare ourselves to the Catholics in England at the time of the Reformation. Was it sinful for them to attend Cranmer's service?
We have to remind ourselves that all the machinery of the "Church" continued in place. They had priests, bishops, churches, cathedrals. But all of them were using the new "Book of Common Prayer" instead of the Catholic Mass. Ordinary lay people could see with their own eyes an enormous entity that called itself the "Church," but did the true Church still exist in that situation? Meanwhile, in small hiding places in certain homes were a handful of true priests offering the true Mass at the risk of imprisonment, torture and death.

MaximGun

#227
October 17, 2021, 01:14:17 AM Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 04:13:33 AM by MaximGun
Popes should execute or at least excommunicate false prophets.

Claiming to get messages from Jesus or Our Lady, should be treated with great seriousness.  It is a hell of a claim to make and has the potential to do a lot of harm.  Investigate it to the Nth degree.  And no more "secrets" for goodness sake. Tell us or don't tell us.

I would like to see parents and siblings of such visionaries called to Rome and forced to give sworn testimony on pain of excommunicationn if they lie.  I bet that would reduce the numbers of visionaries.  God would have to pick reliable visionaries with guts.  Then you would get reliable messages.

Want an annulment and you are scrutinised by a tribunal and have to write down the circumstances of your marriage.  Claim to see heavenly vision threatening doom, and if you win over the local priest and bishop, and you can sell books and plastic devotional tat made in commie China.

Innocent Smith

#228
October 17, 2021, 07:38:34 AM
Quote from: MaximGun on October 17, 2021, 01:14:17 AM
Popes should execute or at least excommunicate false prophets.

Claiming to get messages from Jesus or Our Lady, should be treated with great seriousness.  It is a hell of a claim to make and has the potential to do a lot of harm.  Investigate it to the Nth degree.  And no more "secrets" for goodness sake. Tell us or don't tell us.

I would like to see parents and siblings of such visionaries called to Rome and forced to give sworn testimony on pain of excommunicationn if they lie.  I bet that would reduce the numbers of visionaries.  God would have to pick reliable visionaries with guts.  Then you would get reliable messages.

Want an annulment and you are scrutinised by a tribunal and have to write down the circumstances of your marriage.  Claim to see heavenly vision threatening doom, and if you win over the local priest and bishop, and you can sell books and plastic devotional tat made in commie China.

And once again, for those who don't understand the nuance of words, so-called Church Approval merely means no tenants of the Faith were contradicted in what was said to the visionaries. That is not exactly what one could call a high hurdle.

Telling a pope what to do and then breeding a multitude of "experts" on the subject like Father Gruner raising funds in order to conduct a media campaign in order to make a pope do what he says are revolutionary acts. Too bad so called Trads are the first to join in.

It's really very sad to realize a large portion of seemingly normal and somewhat intellectual Catholics have become completely radicalized by such nonsense. Fatima is weaponized. If not from the very beginning, certainly as soon as the story started to become amended by Sister Lucia as an adult.
I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.

mikemac

#229
October 17, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
Our Lady of Fatima pray for you.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

mikemac

#230
October 17, 2021, 01:34:46 PM
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

Innocent Smith

#231
October 17, 2021, 01:47:33 PM
Quote from: mikemac on October 17, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
Our Lady of Fatima pray for you.

Thank you for the kind thoughts. And you could be right.  Only God knows, but He also knows I am using my own intellect to view things as I do and am confident He would find me innocent.  No pun intended based on my internet handle.

I would also like to take this occasion to apologize to you, and the forum, for that one time I responded to a post of yours with an FU.

That was completely wrong on my part and I sincerely apologize for that faux pax.

I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.

mikemac

#232
October 17, 2021, 02:25:19 PM
Okay, thanks.  I don't remember it.  Amazing how quickly prays to Our Lady of Fatima can change attitudes.  :thumbsup:
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

MaximGun

#233
October 19, 2021, 01:37:35 PM
Miracle of the Sun.

On balance I think this was probably a supernatural event.  Due to several factors such as non-Catholic witnesses and the witness responses.  I don't believe that anyone with a eye to making hay or money from it would have been that quick off the mark.  If the Church saw value in exploiting Fatima later on, it was not for a few years afterward.

That said, it is a fact that nothing was ever prophesied at Fatima that came to pass.  And several things were prophesied did not come to pass.  End of World War 1 and the punishment for all people being "imminent" in 1960.

mikemac

#234
October 19, 2021, 02:01:28 PM Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 02:05:27 PM by mikemac
She didn't say "the punishment for all people being "imminent" in 1960."  She said the third secret should be revealed before 1960.  That's why people think it had to do with the council.  The end of World War 1 came to pass.

I certainly liked Innocent Smith's reply when I posted "Our Lady of Fatima pray for you."  But I didn't post it just for him.  I posted it for GiftOfGod, MaximGun or Greg and anyone else that is having problems with Fatima.  I would have used "yous" but I don't think that is proper grammar.  I think "you" is proper grammar even for plural.  I'm not from the south but I can see how "you all" would have worked better.  So, Our Lady of Fatima pray for you all. 
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima's prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
Source

MaximGun

#235
October 19, 2021, 02:17:34 PM
She did say it in 1957.  See quote in earlier part of this thread

james03

#236
October 19, 2021, 02:17:47 PM
I really resist throwing in with the Fake Lucy crowd, but everytime I check, darn it's scary.



"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

LausTibiChriste

#237
October 19, 2021, 02:21:22 PM
Quote from: james03 on October 19, 2021, 02:17:47 PM
I really resist throwing in with the Fake Lucy crowd, but everytime I check, darn it's scary.





It's so obvious that you are almost obliged to question it at the very least.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son Of God, Have Mercy On Me A Sinner

"Nobody is under any moral obligation of duty or loyalty to a state run by sexual perverts who are trying to destroy public morals."
- MaximGun

"Not trusting your government doesn't make you a conspiracy theorist, it means you're a history buff"

Communism is as American as Apple Pie

MaximGun

#238
October 19, 2021, 02:30:32 PM
Quote from: mikemac on October 19, 2021, 02:01:28 PM
The end of World War 1 came to pass.

Not when she said Our Lady told her it would.  It was walked back.  Initially she said Our Lady had told her it would end immediately. Then this was changed, revised, she "misunderstood" .   War did not end for another 13 months.

I have seen this editing in other apparitions.   The believers. a bit like JWs and other religious, edit the true history as belief in the apparition is more important than objective truth.  Books go out of print.

There is an incentive both financial and ideological in pushing an apparition, both true and false.  There is no money, adulation or reward for showing an apparition to be false.

Write a good book on Medjugore and you can earn 6 figures promoting it and speaking.  Write a better book debunking it and you are unlikely to turn a profit.

MaximGun

#239
October 19, 2021, 02:36:56 PM Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 02:53:09 PM by MaximGun
Quote from: LausTibiChriste on October 19, 2021, 02:21:22 PM
It's so obvious that you are almost obliged to question it at the very least.

I did.  It is nonsense.

People pick and choose the images to support the narrative.
Watch the video .

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