Author Topic: Favorite reasons (Scriptural or other) why you're Catholic, not Protestant.  (Read 1847 times)

Offline Xavier

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Nice responses.

Predestination and reprobation is Catholic doctrine. Double Predestination is a Calvinist heresy specifically condemned in the Council of Orange about a 1000 years before it was revived by Calvin, "According to the Catholic Faith we also believe that after grace has been received through baptism, all baptized persons have the ability and responsibility, if they desire to labor faithfully, to perform with the aid and cooperation of Christ what is of essential importance in regard to the salvation of their soul. We not only do not believe that any are foreordained to evil by the power of God, but even state with utter abhorrence that if there are those who want to believe so evil a thing, they are anathema. We also believe and confess to our benefit that in every good work it is not we who take the initiative and are then assisted through the mercy of God, but God himself first inspires in us both faith in him and love for him without any previous good works of our own that deserve reward, so that we may both faithfully seek the sacrament of baptism, and after baptism be able by his help to do what is pleasing to him." Thus the elect are predestined gratuitously but the wicked are condemned deservedly.

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=20114.0

And there is the Third Council of Valence, which is Denzinger 322, which confirms this when it says, "in the election, moreover, of those who are to be saved, the mercy of God precedes the merited good. In the condemnation, however, of those who are to be lost, the evil which they have deserved precedes the just judgment of God ...  in regard to evil men, however, we believe that God foreknew their malice, because it is from them, but that He did not predestine it, because it is not from Him." Every good and meritorious action is predestined, because it is actually God Who brings it to completion in us. Every evil action is foreknown only but not predestined, since it is from man. Thus, the elect are predestined to life, since God works in them by His grace effecting their salvation. Conditionally, every one can be a predestined soul, since Christ died for all, and gives sufficient grace to all. Those who are reprobated are reprobated on account of (1) committing mortal sins (2) choosing to die in final impenitence, without contrition and conversion. God foreknew these choices, as He foreknows everything, but He did not predetermine it. E.g. He foreknew the malice of Pharoah and Judas, but He repeatedly worked miracles and gave them grace for them to repent. Their resistance to these graces is the cause of their loss.

Meanwhile, the Predestination even of the Mother of God is gratuitous and She confesses God mercifully saved Her by His Grace He gave Her in its fullness.

Every soul, especially Catholic and Christian soul, can be saved if we choose to be, because God's Grace has made it possible to us. Catholics should seek the grace of final perseverance. Our Lord Jesus has promised this to the 9 First Fridays. Our Blessed Mother Mary to the 5 First Saturdays well kept. Similarly, the grace of never committing mortal sin again ensures we will never be lost. God has promised this grace, and those who make it will know it by experience, to the Great Double Novena. http://lapieta.tripod.com/dnov_ena.html

God gives sufficient grace to all non-Catholics and non-Christians. He died for all in general and each one in particular. And even after doing so much for us, so great is His unfathomable love that, it were possible and necessary, as He has often said to His Saints, He would come to suffer and die just for one of us, “Every time one kisses the Crucifix, or looks at it with devotion, the eye of God’s mercy is fixed upon his soul. He should then listen within himself to these words of tenderness from Me: ‘Behold how I, for love of thee, hang on the Cross—naked, despised, My while Body wounded, all My limbs distended. And still My Heart is enkindled with such glowing love for thee that if it were beneficial for thy salvation and thou couldst not be saved in any other way, I would for thee alone endure all that I suffered for the whole world!’” https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=21343.0 This shows how great love our Saviour has for all of us, and how much love we should have for each other and for the salvation of every soul for whom Christ has died.

Anyway, if our Protestant friends were to take John 6 and 1 Cor seriously, they should all end up becoming Catholic Christians tomorrow.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53011.htm

[26] For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 04:24:53 AM by Xavier »
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"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 

Offline Gardener

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Nice responses.

Predestination and reprobation is Catholic doctrine. Double Predestination is a Calvinist heresy specifically condemned in the Council of Orange about a 1000 years before it was revived by Calvin, "According to the Catholic Faith we also believe that after grace has been received through baptism, all baptized persons have the ability and responsibility, if they desire to labor faithfully, to perform with the aid and cooperation of Christ what is of essential importance in regard to the salvation of their soul. We not only do not believe that any are foreordained to evil by the power of God, but even state with utter abhorrence that if there are those who want to believe so evil a thing, they are anathema. We also believe and confess to our benefit that in every good work it is not we who take the initiative and are then assisted through the mercy of God, but God himself first inspires in us both faith in him and love for him without any previous good works of our own that deserve reward, so that we may both faithfully seek the sacrament of baptism, and after baptism be able by his help to do what is pleasing to him." Thus the elect are predestined gratuitously but the wicked are condemned deservedly.

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=20114.0

And there is the Third Council of Valence, which is Denzinger 322, which confirms this when it says, "in the election, moreover, of those who are to be saved, the mercy of God precedes the merited good. In the condemnation, however, of those who are to be lost, the evil which they have deserved precedes the just judgment of God ...  in regard to evil men, however, we believe that God foreknew their malice, because it is from them, but that He did not predestine it, because it is not from Him." Every good and meritorious action is predestined, because it is actually God Who brings it to completion in us. Every evil action is foreknown only but not predestined, since it is from man. Thus, the elect are predestined to life, since God works in them by His grace effecting their salvation. Conditionally, every one can be a predestined soul, since Christ died for all, and gives sufficient grace to all. Those who are reprobated are reprobated on account of (1) committing mortal sins (2) choosing to die in final impenitence, without contrition and conversion. God foreknew these choices, as He foreknows everything, but He did not predetermine it. E.g. He foreknew the malice of Pharoah and Judas, but He repeatedly worked miracles and gave them grace for them to repent. Their resistance to these graces is the cause of their loss.

Meanwhile, the Predestination even of the Mother of God is gratuitous and She confesses God mercifully saved Her by His Grace He gave Her in its fullness.

Every soul, especially Catholic and Christian soul, can be saved if we choose to be, because God's Grace has made it possible to us. Catholics should seek the grace of final perseverance. Our Lord Jesus has promised this to the 9 First Fridays. Our Blessed Mother Mary to the 5 First Saturdays well kept. Similarly, the grace of never committing mortal sin again ensures we will never be lost. God has promised this grace, and those who make it will know it by experience, to the Great Double Novena. http://lapieta.tripod.com/dnov_ena.html

God gives sufficient grace to all non-Catholics and non-Christians. He died for all in general and each one in particular. And even after doing so much for us, so great is His unfathomable love that, it were possible and necessary, as He has often said to His Saints, He would come to suffer and die just for one of us, “Every time one kisses the Crucifix, or looks at it with devotion, the eye of God’s mercy is fixed upon his soul. He should then listen within himself to these words of tenderness from Me: ‘Behold how I, for love of thee, hang on the Cross—naked, despised, My while Body wounded, all My limbs distended. And still My Heart is enkindled with such glowing love for thee that if it were beneficial for thy salvation and thou couldst not be saved in any other way, I would for thee alone endure all that I suffered for the whole world!’” https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=21343.0 This shows how great love our Saviour has for all of us, and how much love we should have for each other and for the salvation of every soul for whom Christ has died.

Anyway, if our Protestant friends were to take John 6 and 1 Cor seriously, they should all end up becoming Catholic Christians tomorrow.

http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53011.htm

[26] For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.

Under the Banezian system as falsely ascribed to St. Thomas, the bolded/underlined is patently false.
“The Modern Attack will not tolerate us. It will attempt to
destroy us. Nor can we tolerate it. We must attempt to destroy it as being the fully equipped and ardent enemy of the Truth by which men live. The duel is to the death.” - Hilaire Belloc, The Great Heresies
 
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Offline Xavier

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Bump.

Yes, Banezianism is falsely ascribed to St. Thomas. Banezianism is also patently false, agreed on that much. Tradition, of course, as the Council of Valence III, teaches Gratuitous/Merciful Predestination and Deserved Condemnation/Reprobation. The End.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 06:51:16 AM by Xavier »
Please join my Rosary Crusade to end Abortion: https://rosarycrusadingarmytoendabortion.home.blog/ Pray the 1000 Hail Marys Rosary Frequently. You can Save 1000 Souls!

Offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, for All Lay Apostolates, and All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Hey! I have an idea, why don't we start a thread about "Grace, Predestination and free Will?"..... Naw, nobody would be interested...... :laugh:
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Offline abc123

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As a Catholic I was always disappointed at the general lack of knowledge regarding RC doctrine from Protestants. Now as a Reformed-minded Anglican I see how the ignorance of opposing views goes both ways. The lack of understanding regarding Reformed theology, not to mention a healthy dose of Scriptural Eisegesis is staggering. First year students at any reputable Reformed seminary could dispatch these boilerplate arguments post haste.

I suppose ignorance is both blissful and comforting as it convinces oneself that you really have understood and refuted opposing viewpoints.

For any truly interested in understanding the Reformed understanding of Free-will and predestination I would recommend 'Bondage of the Will' by Luther or for a more contemporary treatment 'The God who Justifes' by James White.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 08:58:29 PM by abc123 »
 

Offline nmoerbeek

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As a Catholic I was always disappointed at the general lack of knowledge regarding RC doctrine from Protestants. Now as a Reformed-minded Anglican I see how the ignorance of opposing views goes both ways. The lack of understanding regarding Reformed theology, not to mention a healthy dose of Scriptural Eisegesis is staggering. First year students at any reputable Reformed seminary could dispatch these boilerplate arguments post haste.

I suppose ignorance is both blissful and comforting as it convinces oneself that you really have understood and refuted opposing viewpoints.

For any truly interested in understanding the Reformed understanding of Free-will and predestination I would recommend 'Bondage of the Will' by Luther or for a more contemporary treatment 'The God who Justifes' by James White.

I thought you were EO?  Is this a recent change?
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Offline mikemac

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As a Catholic I was always disappointed at the general lack of knowledge regarding RC doctrine from Protestants. Now as a Reformed-minded Anglican I see how the ignorance of opposing views goes both ways. The lack of understanding regarding Reformed theology, not to mention a healthy dose of Scriptural Eisegesis is staggering. First year students at any reputable Reformed seminary could dispatch these boilerplate arguments post haste.

I suppose ignorance is both blissful and comforting as it convinces oneself that you really have understood and refuted opposing viewpoints.

For any truly interested in understanding the Reformed understanding of Free-will and predestination I would recommend 'Bondage of the Will' by Luther or for a more contemporary treatment 'The God who Justifes' by James White.

I thought you were EO?  Is this a recent change?

I was thinking the same.
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Offline St.Justin

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Because I was born Catholic or within 7 days of my birth.
 
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