Author Topic: Moral Question  (Read 362 times)

Offline Elizabeth.2

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Moral Question
« on: September 23, 2021, 05:00:24 PM »
Is there some teaching regarding praying for someone's death?  Am I imagining some online discussion about this topic?

Is there some caveat about when there is real danger of squandering a fortune and leaving the vulnerable family homeless and  destitute?  I always forget to ask in Confession, but the lines are long and it's not a counseling session.

My deceased ad's concubine got everything, tons, and she has also inherited two other estates. She certainly is responsible in part for horrible situations my siblings find themselves in. She's the one who called the cops to prevent my Dad getting Last Rites etc.

 Especially my older brother who is paranoid schizophrenic living in CA with a caretaker who is giving him the boot after 16 years.  He wants to come home now; he is a totally gentle soul but he gets drunk and goes out panhandling.  My sisters are borderline homeless, zero stability but want to be there for Theodore, also.  Theodore needs looking after, not a mental institution.  His caregiver cannot bear him to be institutionalized, either.  He'd never get Last Rites out there, though. 

So, when the concubine passes away, the house becomes mine.  But now it's a crisis for my brother.  I know to pray for Justice, have avoided thinking about the concubine since Dad's death like 4 years ago.  I'd give my siblings the house in a heartbeat (after having it exorcised)

Is it a sin to pray that her days be shortened?   I have not done so, but surely this is a common situation with clear Catholic guidelines which I pray for the grace to obey. 
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Moral Question
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2021, 05:03:03 PM »
As long as you are praying that she convert and have a happy death, I don't see any problem.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline LausTibiChriste

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Re: Moral Question
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2021, 05:31:42 PM »
St Rita prayed for the death of her own sons rather than see them commit mortal sin.

So in theory, it's not necessarily wrong. The extenuating circumstances could heavily change the morality of it though, I would imagine.
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Offline Elizabeth.2

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Re: Moral Question
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2021, 09:42:39 PM »
Well, it's a tasteless and crass topic, and on reflexion it's probably me being tempted.  Mortify the heart and mind via the 3rd Sorrowful Mystery....
 
 
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Offline Philip G.

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Re: Moral Question
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2021, 01:26:46 PM »
I would not pray directly for ones death.  But, that doesn't mean you cannot pray for things proximate to that.  Meaning, you can pray for a just and proper distribution of said estate(s)/inheritance.  And, obviously those things do not occur so long as the concubine(?) is still living.  It also sounds like you should simply be praying more for the wellbeing of the family members that will theoretically benefit from the inheritance.  You only have so many prayers in you on a daily basis, direct them properly, and trust in God.
For the stone shall cry out of the wall; and the timber that is between the joints of the building, shall answer.  Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and prepareth a city by iniquity. - Habacuc 2,11-12
 
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Offline nmoerbeek

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Re: Moral Question
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2021, 10:40:24 AM »
Is there some teaching regarding praying for someone's death?  Am I imagining some online discussion about this topic?

Is there some caveat about when there is real danger of squandering a fortune and leaving the vulnerable family homeless and  destitute?  I always forget to ask in Confession, but the lines are long and it's not a counseling session.

My deceased ad's concubine got everything, tons, and she has also inherited two other estates. She certainly is responsible in part for horrible situations my siblings find themselves in. She's the one who called the cops to prevent my Dad getting Last Rites etc.

 Especially my older brother who is paranoid schizophrenic living in CA with a caretaker who is giving him the boot after 16 years.  He wants to come home now; he is a totally gentle soul but he gets drunk and goes out panhandling.  My sisters are borderline homeless, zero stability but want to be there for Theodore, also.  Theodore needs looking after, not a mental institution.  His caregiver cannot bear him to be institutionalized, either.  He'd never get Last Rites out there, though. 

So, when the concubine passes away, the house becomes mine.  But now it's a crisis for my brother.  I know to pray for Justice, have avoided thinking about the concubine since Dad's death like 4 years ago.  I'd give my siblings the house in a heartbeat (after having it exorcised)

Is it a sin to pray that her days be shortened?   I have not done so, but surely this is a common situation with clear Catholic guidelines which I pray for the grace to obey.

I would highly recommend getting : St. Alphonsus Moral Theology Book 2:3
https://www.amazon.com/Moral-Theology-Books-Theologia-Moralis-ebook/dp/B06XYM6Y4J/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=moral+theology+book+2+and+3&qid=1633012690&sr=8-3

Here is an excerpt from the book that might help you:
https://prnt.sc/1u8e30o

My personally opinion would be not to pray for the death of the person.  Pray rather for a solution to the problem, you might only see death as the solution, but with God there are many ways to solve a problem let God be the judge, you have a problem go to God with the problem.  To illustrate:  St. Basil the Great prayed not for the death of Julian the Apostate but rather just that his People of Caesarea not be destroyed by him, as a result of his prayer the Virgin Mary ordered that St. Mercurius come down to heaven and slay Julian, which did happen.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 10:46:08 AM by nmoerbeek »
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Offline Elizabeth.2

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Re: Moral Question
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2021, 02:32:12 PM »
Thank you so much, Nmoerbeek and all.  What a good old Forum SD is.   St. Alphonusus, pray for us.   :grouphug:
 
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Offline Prayerful

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Re: Moral Question
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2021, 04:32:52 PM »
That is a litany of misfortune. I will pray however I can that it gets better.

Psalm 108 / 109 can be 'May his days be few: and his bishopric let another take' in Douay-Rheim Ch or 'swiftly let his days come to an end and his office be entrusted to another' in Knox, and have variously psalms wishing harm on somehow. Mgsr Knox suggests some might have been spoken by the detractors of the psalmist. Still praying for the death of someone seems a morally dubious thing (although a priest suggested it as a prayer for Francis). nmoerbeek suggests praying for a solution which God will somehow grant.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
 
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