The media of our abortive culture.

[verenaerin]

I will agree with you that it is good for the children that the mother stays home with them. I also agree that women are naturally good at the whole child rearing thing. But, I'll actually disagree with you about it typically being good for the mother in this day and age. It used to be that women had extended social networks of sisters, and cousins, and neighbors, and friends who would visit and assist with the children. Now a stay-at-home housewife is often relegated to a life of social isolation, drudgery, and boredom. Women who wish to do right by their children and homeschool, or what have you, often do so very much as a sacrifice. Many women love their children so much, and love being able to be with them all the time, such that they would even scoff at the idea that it is a sacrifice, but that does not make it not so. Catholics need to be honest about the issues housewives face. We don't want to be like the Mormon and just ignore them and hope they go away.

I agree with this. I almost never, ever leave the house. How can I go anywhere with 5 kids? Not only that, I am expecting again and am supposed to be taking it easy/ kinda bedrest. If I had my sister or mother near by it would be a totally different scenario. I could go to my sister's and not worry about things being baby proof, or how I look, or how the kids look. My mother as well. There are very few families with kids as young as mine, and the few there are, I hardly know them, they aren't trads (not that that is a prerequisite, but it would be nice), and they are usually so busy that no one has any time. It is more of a hassle to go anywhere and just easier to stay home.

[Jayne]

I will agree with you that it is good for the children that the mother stays home with them. I also agree that women are naturally good at the whole child rearing thing. But, I'll actually disagree with you about it typically being good for the mother in this day and age. It used to be that women had extended social networks of sisters, and cousins, and neighbors, and friends who would visit and assist with the children. Now a stay-at-home housewife is often relegated to a life of social isolation, drudgery, and boredom. Women who wish to do right by their children and homeschool, or what have you, often do so very much as a sacrifice. Many women love their children so much, and love being able to be with them all the time, such that they would even scoff at the idea that it is a sacrifice, but that does not make it not so. Catholics need to be honest about the issues housewives face. We don't want to be like the Mormon and just ignore them and hope they go away.

It is good for society for mothers to stay home with their children, although, as you say, it is often hard on these women.  Even so, spiritually we gain many blessings when we deal with the challenges of being a housewife.  I am very thankful that I have the privilege of being a stay-at-home housewife.  There is nothing that I would rather do.

Since you have explained that your comments were specifically directed at Mormon housewives, I can see what you mean.  However, one reason that women struggle with being housewives is because it is viewed by many as a negative thing.  I went for years refusing to refer to myself as one.  Perhaps you could be more careful in the future to avoid making comments that could be understood as negative towards housewives.

(By the way, I read the first book in the trilogy because my daughter was interested in it, but could not bear to read any more. I strongly disliked it.)

[dymphna17]

I will agree with you that it is good for the children that the mother stays home with them. I also agree that women are naturally good at the whole child rearing thing. But, I'll actually disagree with you about it typically being good for the mother in this day and age. It used to be that women had extended social networks of sisters, and cousins, and neighbors, and friends who would visit and assist with the children. Now a stay-at-home housewife is often relegated to a life of social isolation, drudgery, and boredom. Women who wish to do right by their children and homeschool, or what have you, often do so very much as a sacrifice. Many women love their children so much, and love being able to be with them all the time, such that they would even scoff at the idea that it is a sacrifice, but that does not make it not so. Catholics need to be honest about the issues housewives face. We don't want to be like the Mormon and just ignore them and hope they go away.

Mattock,

The only thing I'll say about the Mormon stuff is that because they didn't go along with the world, regarding women, I'll say it again, regarding women, they have kept their ability to raise large families who are generally not tainted by the world's ideas of who women and families should be.  Through the experience of getting to know the woman my cousin married, who is a Mormon, I have learned that they have the "network" that Catholics used to have back in the day.  Virtually all women were stay at home Moms/housewives and were there for each other.  Families stuck together and helped each other with the raising of those families.  Most Mormons are that way now, because we gave them the playbook. 

My only question to you is, how do you expect to "restore all things in Christ", which is our job as Catholics now, without the sacrifice of women/housewives/Mothers?  Acting like the world will not bring Catholic families back.  Acting like virtual lemmings will not bring Catholic networks back.  These things were good for the whole family and all of society, not just women.  If you want to be honest about the issues housewives face, bring up the issue of how much better off we'll all be when women are given their rightful places back that were given to them by God.  It's got to start somewhere since it was thrown to the wind not so many years ago.  As Traditional Catholics, the minority of the Church right now, it starts with us.  Sacrifice has to be our middle name.



Edited to fix quote problem

[Penelope]

I will agree with you that it is good for the children that the mother stays home with them. I also agree that women are naturally good at the whole child rearing thing. But, I'll actually disagree with you about it typically being good for the mother in this day and age. It used to be that women had extended social networks of sisters, and cousins, and neighbors, and friends who would visit and assist with the children. Now a stay-at-home housewife is often relegated to a life of social isolation, drudgery, and boredom. Women who wish to do right by their children and homeschool, or what have you, often do so very much as a sacrifice. Many women love their children so much, and love being able to be with them all the time, such that they would even scoff at the idea that it is a sacrifice, but that does not make it not so. Catholics need to be honest about the issues housewives face. We don't want to be like the Mormon and just ignore them and hope they go away.

I agree with this. I almost never, ever leave the house. How can I go anywhere with 5 kids? Not only that, I am expecting again and am supposed to be taking it easy/ kinda bedrest. If I had my sister or mother near by it would be a totally different scenario. I could go to my sister's and not worry about things being baby proof, or how I look, or how the kids look. My mother as well. There are very few families with kids as young as mine, and the few there are, I hardly know them, they aren't trads (not that that is a prerequisite, but it would be nice), and they are usually so busy that no one has any time. It is more of a hassle to go anywhere and just easier to stay home.

Well, this is a bit of a further derail, but I'll agree, too. As someone who used to spend her day with dozens of quasi-adults engaging in actual conversations, I find some aspects of staying at home really difficult. I'm bored out of my mind. Oh my goodness. The most exciting thing I do each week is spend a couple of hours each Wednesday afternoon with my grandparents, who are lovely people and whose company I enjoy, but how many times can you re-hash the same conversations about declining health and clearance sales week after week? Even those SAHMs who have family nearby (me) and who want to spend time with those family members (not really me) can't because everyone else is at work all day. And all my "mom-friends" work. Or they live three hours away (Verena). Or they are too busy homeschooling their older kids (everyone I know from church). Or they are too Novus Ordo or not even Catholic at all, and so what's the point?

I don't struggle because the world sees my life as negative. I struggle because that's life in this vale of tears. I yearn for an authentic community that exists right here, tangibly, where I am, instead of via the Internet, but that just isn't available for this dumpy housewife who spends half the day in pajamas because, really, who is going to see me?

[verenaerin]

I will agree with you that it is good for the children that the mother stays home with them. I also agree that women are naturally good at the whole child rearing thing. But, I'll actually disagree with you about it typically being good for the mother in this day and age. It used to be that women had extended social networks of sisters, and cousins, and neighbors, and friends who would visit and assist with the children. Now a stay-at-home housewife is often relegated to a life of social isolation, drudgery, and boredom. Women who wish to do right by their children and homeschool, or what have you, often do so very much as a sacrifice. Many women love their children so much, and love being able to be with them all the time, such that they would even scoff at the idea that it is a sacrifice, but that does not make it not so. Catholics need to be honest about the issues housewives face. We don't want to be like the Mormon and just ignore them and hope they go away.

I agree with this. I almost never, ever leave the house. How can I go anywhere with 5 kids? Not only that, I am expecting again and am supposed to be taking it easy/ kinda bedrest. If I had my sister or mother near by it would be a totally different scenario. I could go to my sister's and not worry about things being baby proof, or how I look, or how the kids look. My mother as well. There are very few families with kids as young as mine, and the few there are, I hardly know them, they aren't trads (not that that is a prerequisite, but it would be nice), and they are usually so busy that no one has any time. It is more of a hassle to go anywhere and just easier to stay home.

Well, this is a bit of a further derail, but I'll agree, too. As someone who used to spend her day with dozens of quasi-adults engaging in actual conversations, I find some aspects of staying at home really difficult. I'm bored out of my mind. Oh my goodness. The most exciting thing I do each week is spend a couple of hours each Wednesday afternoon with my grandparents, who are lovely people and whose company I enjoy, but how many times can you re-hash the same conversations about declining health and clearance sales week after week? Even those SAHMs who have family nearby (me) and who want to spend time with those family members (not really me) can't because everyone else is at work all day. And all my "mom-friends" work. Or they live three hours away (Verena). Or they are too busy homeschooling their older kids (everyone I know from church). Or they are too Novus Ordo or not even Catholic at all, and so what's the point?

I don't struggle because the world sees my life as negative. I struggle because that's life in this vale of tears. I yearn for an authentic community that exists right here, tangibly, where I am, instead of via the Internet, but that just isn't available for this dumpy housewife who spends half the day in pajamas because, really, who is going to see me?

exactly.

[LausTibiChriste]

Y'all need to move to Poland

[Bernadette]

Y'all need to move to Poland

Since we're derailing and all...

What made you choose Poland of all places? o.0

[LausTibiChriste]

Y'all need to move to Poland

Since we're derailing and all...

What made you choose Poland of all places? o.0

A nice 1 room flat costs me $100 a month in a good part of town and my school is just as good as the UK ones at 1/10th the price.

Added bonuses: Women and cheap beer and everyone is Catholic (albeit NO but I'm not picky in this day and age)

It all happened quite by accident but I'm not complaining at all. This place is paradise.

[JubilateDeo]

Y'all need to move to Poland

Since we're derailing and all...

What made you choose Poland of all places? o.0

A nice 1 room flat costs me $100 a month in a good part of town and my school is just as good as the UK ones at 1/10th the price.

Added bonuses: Women and cheap beer and everyone is Catholic (albeit NO but I'm not picky in this day and age)

It all happened quite by accident but I'm not complaining at all. This place is paradise.

Also, pierogi!

[LausTibiChriste]

Y'all need to move to Poland

Since we're derailing and all...

What made you choose Poland of all places? o.0

A nice 1 room flat costs me $100 a month in a good part of town and my school is just as good as the UK ones at 1/10th the price.

Added bonuses: Women and cheap beer and everyone is Catholic (albeit NO but I'm not picky in this day and age)

It all happened quite by accident but I'm not complaining at all. This place is paradise.

Also, pierogi!

And kielbasa

[verenaerin]

We did just have cabbage and noodles last night.

[erin is nice]

I love Polish food, but really I'm posting because I'm wondering where Harlequin King is to defend The Witcher. It's his favorite game.

[zork]

Y'all need to move to Poland

Since we're derailing and all...

What made you choose Poland of all places? o.0

A nice 1 room flat costs me $100 a month in a good part of town and my school is just as good as the UK ones at 1/10th the price.

Added bonuses: Women and cheap beer and everyone is Catholic (albeit NO but I'm not picky in this day and age)

It all happened quite by accident but I'm not complaining at all. This place is paradise.

Also, pierogi!

And kielbasa

And the donut-like food with the weird name. (Paczki, I believe.)

[Mattock]

 

This thread has been beautifully derailed. Abortion in the fiction media . . . Twilight and Meyer . . .  stay at home moms . . . Polish food. The Internet at its finest. 

Mattock,

My only question to you is, how do you expect to "restore all things in Christ", which is our job as Catholics now, without the sacrifice of women/housewives/Mothers?  Acting like the world will not bring Catholic families back.  Acting like virtual lemmings will not bring Catholic networks back.  These things were good for the whole family and all of society, not just women.  If you want to be honest about the issues housewives face, bring up the issue of how much better off we'll all be when women are given their rightful places back that were given to them by God.  It's got to start somewhere since it was thrown to the wind not so many years ago.  As Traditional Catholics, the minority of the Church right now, it starts with us.  Sacrifice has to be our middle name.

I absolutely agree with you, and you say it better than I could. You have many years of experience with making the sacrifices necessary to stay at home, while I am just beginning to change my life in order to allow my wife to do so. You are my elder and superior in this regard, and I respect you for it. I anticipate that I will very soon have frequent need of the advice of as such as yourself here on SD with respect to all things domestic.

I meant that we must be honest about the difficulties faced by women who try to return to the hearth. Many women face this task almost like the pioneer wives of old faced the wilderness. They often have to recreate their families's culture out of whole cloth and learn the domestic arts from scratch, and they must do all this largely alone. I have read several very touching blog posts from mothers who were never taught to sew, or bake, or knit, or whatever, because their mothers considered such things beneath the dignity of an educated woman. These new mothers of my generation have found it amazingly awkward and frustrating trying to learn how to darn socks or such from Youtube videos. It only takes one generation for the link to be broken. But such is where we are. (Men also often have to learn how to tie a tie or clean a gun from Youtube videos, but that is beyond the scope of this post.) And on top of asking a woman to do something for which she has been little prepared, the culture at large, and very often her own close family and friends, will subjugate her to frequent belittlement and scorn because she isn't "doing anything useful with her life." The Catholic housewives of this generation experience sacrifices and frustrations largely unknown to our ancestors. The decision to homeschool and stay home with the children is usually motivated not primarily for the experience or the lifestyle, but as a way of best assuring the salvation of the children. This reason is usually impossible to explain or even broach with our secular peers.

[AngloFalcon]

Thank you America. You've derailed my lovely discussion. Never mind.

My blabber (for what it's worth).

I think Mattock gave a very good analysis of the reasons why the horror genre focuses on certain subject matter. I do not think this excuses the writers or the horror genre in any way, which I'm sure wasn't what you were arguing Mattock, as they choose freely to make their living by producing disgusting things that are completely insensitive and frankly demonic. It is still an example of how far our society has fallen and we should refute the mindset and agenda every chance we get, so we can defend traditional values. I would add that while I will not accuse individual game companies without evidence, there are clearly going to be many Satanists who work in the media. If I was a Satanist and I worked in the media I would certainly produce games that have immodesty, impurity, blasphemy, occultism and abuse of the unborn all rolled into one. Just saying...

I do not believe Twilight is not an uplifting or innocent series. The Twilight cult always seems highly sensual and the fact that a fictitious couple are married does not give the writer and readers freedom to follow the characters into their more intimate scenes. Perhaps this doesn't apply to the books (I confess I'd be surprised) but I know the films include very sensual even if not technically sexual (although again, I'd be amazed) scenes. If some of you read the book and honestly didn't find it erotic I am not trying to sour it for you. Perhaps more has been read into it than needed. I still think it is very much a product of our times and at best frivolous slush, and frivolous slush still actually undermines traditional relationships and true romance. I also agree that there seems to be disturbing amount of middle aged women who indulge in at best silly and girly fantasies, and these seem to have made up a large amount of the Twilight fanbase. Of course, feel free to disagree. Ultimately I guess if you've read the books you carry more authority on them.

Stay-at-home moms are awesome. I think we agree unanimously on that one.

Poland is surely a nice country. The Polish made a very creepy game about the Dyatlov Pass Incident, for which I am grateful.

Food is nice but I'm sure there are other threads where you may discuss this at your leisure. Shoot me down if you think we should talk food here. I can take y'all. 

Over and out.