So you wanna code?

[Gardener]

It's not hard to just answer the questions Ralfy. No need to Flip out.

[christulsa]

I didn't read him as "flipping out."  And he's not obliged to answer your questions, under pain of being shamed for not answering them.  What planet are you living on?   Why be needlessly contrarian?  That isn't edifying for Christians merely talking about code, or economics.

[TheReturnofLive]

Ralfy, there are holes in your argument.

NO

AGGHHH

Holes in skin are bad enough, but holes in eyes BLEGGHGHH

[Gardener]

Ralfy, there are holes in your argument.

NO

AGGHHH

Holes in skin are bad enough, but holes in eyes BLEGGHGHH

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trypophobia

[Gardener]

I didn't read him as "flipping out."  And he's not obliged to answer your questions, under pain of being shamed for not answering them.  What planet are you living on?   Why be needlessly contrarian?  That isn't edifying for Christians merely talking about code, or economics.

Comparing one of the poorest populations in SE Asia to the US is as useless as promoting universal healthcare based on Norway or Iceland. There are so many other considerations.

Seems like a simple "ask": what experience does one asserting a position have to assert said position. Establishing competence in a subject is a basic tenet of cross-examination for those asserting themselves as expert witnesses. If one contends that 15/hr for an in demand skill set which requires experience to be competent is acceptable because some sub-Saharan African or some "average" Filipino exists on far less, in their native country, then one must establish the total reality of that economic claim. Otherwise, the averages are useless. Averages mean nothing without context. And even then they're not super useful.

[ralfy]

Comparing one of the poorest populations in SE Asia to the US is as useless as promoting universal healthcare based on Norway or Iceland. There are so many other considerations.

Seems like a simple "ask": what experience does one asserting a position have to assert said position. Establishing competence in a subject is a basic tenet of cross-examination for those asserting themselves as expert witnesses. If one contends that 15/hr for an in demand skill set which requires experience to be competent is acceptable because some sub-Saharan African or some "average" Filipino exists on far less, in their native country, then one must establish the total reality of that economic claim. Otherwise, the averages are useless. Averages mean nothing without context. And even then they're not super useful.

Which is the opposite of what capitalists have been doing. Hence, outsourcing.

[Gardener]

Comparing one of the poorest populations in SE Asia to the US is as useless as promoting universal healthcare based on Norway or Iceland. There are so many other considerations.

Seems like a simple "ask": what experience does one asserting a position have to assert said position. Establishing competence in a subject is a basic tenet of cross-examination for those asserting themselves as expert witnesses. If one contends that 15/hr for an in demand skill set which requires experience to be competent is acceptable because some sub-Saharan African or some "average" Filipino exists on far less, in their native country, then one must establish the total reality of that economic claim. Otherwise, the averages are useless. Averages mean nothing without context. And even then they're not super useful.

Which is the opposite of what capitalists have been doing. Hence, outsourcing.

deflection noted.

[christulsa]

Establishing competence in a subject is a basic tenet of cross-examination for those asserting themselves as expert witnesses.

I do not read Ralfy as acting like an "expert witness" or the discussion up to that point being some kind of major dispute needing "cross examination."   This is a discussion forum.  Among fellow Catholics.

That said, IF your metric was true, THEN in theory the same could be asked of you.  What is your experience with applied economics or applied statistics?  For example when speaking of the "uselessness of averages."  What experience do you have with the economic realities of the Philippines in comparison to those of the US?  Ie, what expertise do you have to back up your counter-points to Ralfy?   

[ralfy]

deflection noted.

But you admitted this earlier:

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=25200.msg525679#msg525679

[ralfy]

I do not read Ralfy as acting like an "expert witness" or the discussion up to that point being some kind of major dispute needing "cross examination."   This is a discussion forum.  Among fellow Catholics.

That said, IF your metric was true, THEN in theory the same could be asked of you.  What is your experience with applied economics or applied statistics?  For example when speaking of the "uselessness of averages."  What experience do you have with the economic realities of the Philippines in comparison to those of the US?  Ie, what expertise do you have to back up your counter-points to Ralfy?

The data that he provided was for Denver, with costs involving his own estimates. The data given by Numbeo refers to a national average for costs and income, which includes ave. income after taxes.

He claims that the data is wrong. Never mind any proof of experience or even expertise, as that can't be proven in a site where personal information is kept anonymous; to prove that, one has to show the correct figures and in the form of national averages, and the source of that data.

The only other data set I can think of is GDP (PPP), but that's more of an average that divides total national income by population. Given that, what Numbeo gives is more logical.

[christulsa]

Salamat aking kaibigan. 

[Heinrich]

Ralfy, one can't live off of 15/hr in Denver, CO. Impossible. What the illegals do is have el Jefe of the organized crime syndicate that coyoted them over buy a house and have 20 dudes intermittently live there. If a union painter has a local bargaining of 30/hr and the illegals come and get 15, they are able to pay a small weekly or monthly per diem as the aggregate will lower living costs. They take what's left of their rent and coyote payment and send it back to Mexico/Central America. That being said, I would expect a similar racket for coders from Delhi.

[ralfy]

Salamat aking kaibigan.

Hey, I know what that means!

Salamat = Thanks (based on the Arabic "salamah" or peaceful greeting)
aking = my ("kin" or I; interestingly enough, similar to the Middle English "kyn" or kind)
kaibigan = friend (ka = fellow, alike, or partner, ibig = love, but also wish or desire)

I knew that the language is similar to Malay, but it has Semitic roots, too?

BTW, my friend says "aking" can be dropped: Salamat, kaibigan. She also adds that guys usually say, "Salamat, pare." (buddy or "bro").

[ralfy]

Ralfy, one can't live off of 15/hr in Denver, CO. Impossible. What the illegals do is have el Jefe of the organized crime syndicate that coyoted them over buy a house and have 20 dudes intermittently live there. If a union painter has a local bargaining of 30/hr and the illegals come and get 15, they are able to pay a small weekly or monthly per diem as the aggregate will lower living costs. They take what's left of their rent and coyote payment and send it back to Mexico/Central America. That being said, I would expect a similar racket for coders from Delhi.

But the Numbeo site and discussion refer to legal workers, and the cost of living services charged by electric companies, utilities, etc., and products purchased in groceries, drug stores, and so on.

[Heinrich]

Ralfy, one can't live off of 15/hr in Denver, CO. Impossible. What the illegals do is have el Jefe of the organized crime syndicate that coyoted them over buy a house and have 20 dudes intermittently live there. If a union painter has a local bargaining of 30/hr and the illegals come and get 15, they are able to pay a small weekly or monthly per diem as the aggregate will lower living costs. They take what's left of their rent and coyote payment and send it back to Mexico/Central America. That being said, I would expect a similar racket for coders from Delhi.

But the Numbeo site and discussion refer to legal workers, and the cost of living services charged by electric companies, utilities, etc., and products purchased in groceries, drug stores, and so on.

Sure. Be my guest. C'mon over and settle in at your third world wage.