Trump wanted to assassinate Assad.

Started by Philip G., September 21, 2020, 11:54:44 PM

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John Lamb

Quote from: Greg on September 22, 2020, 01:44:25 PM
Neither did Churchill.

This impressed FDR and the USA entered WW2 and helped the Soviets defeat the Nazis.



Attacking your own ally without warning. What a cowardly and dishonourable move, even by pagan standards let alone Christian.

This is why we got the cultural revolution of the 60s and the decline of Christian culture. People knew it was all fake by the time people were doing this to one another. At Christmas we celebrate the entrance of the saviour into the world, at Easter we celebrate the resurrection of the dead, on Sundays we proclaim the reality of Baptism and communion of saints, and in between we slaughter each other with machine guns and bombs. That was the religion of our highly moral, civilised, so-called "Christian" ancestors.
"Let all bitterness and animosity and indignation and defamation be removed from you, together with every evil. And become helpfully kind to one another, inwardly compassionate, forgiving among yourselves, just as God also graciously forgave you in the Anointed." – St. Paul

Greg

#16
At that stage they were not our ally.  They were defeated by Germany and about to surrender their fleet. The USA were neutral and the Soviets were on the German's side.

It was a bold move and it worked. FDR knew the British had massive balls and the spunk to fight the Nazis.  Who had taken France over in 6 weeks.

We gave France options.  They chose to be stubborn and die like idiots. Why not sail to Britain and fight with us?
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Greg

Quote from: John Lamb on September 22, 2020, 03:54:46 PM
Men involved in assassination plots and war crimes are sons of the devil, no matter how Christian or Catholic they claim to be, and regardless of who calls them a saint. If your religion is just to add a bit of outward respectability to your public character then you're spiritually pagan, and if it's just for you to look down on your less religious neighbours you're a pharisee.

One of them was St. POPE PIUS V
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Frank

#18
Quote from: John Lamb on September 22, 2020, 03:54:46 PM
Men involved in assassination plots and war crimes are sons of the devil, no matter how Christian or Catholic they claim to be, and regardless of who calls them a saint. If your religion is just to add a bit of outward respectability to your public character then you're spiritually pagan, and if it's just for you to look down on your less religious neighbours you're a pharisee.
Would it have been wrong to "assassinate" Hitler. After all he was the
German  commander-in-chief. I would have thought he was a legitimate
target in WW2.
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est

awkwardcustomer

The French should have sunk their fleet themselves.

And formerly the heretics were manifest; but now the Church is filled with heretics in disguise.  
St Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecture 15, para 9.

And what rough beast, it's hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
WB Yeats, 'The Second Coming'.

Frank

Quote from: awkwardcustomer on September 22, 2020, 04:29:31 PM
The French should have sunk their fleet themselves.
... or sailed it to the US. They had the option.
in principio erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum et Deus erat Verbum
hoc erat in principio apud Deum
omnia per ipsum facta sunt et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est

Greg

And this is my point.  Moralistic people would lose every war in history.

How did pacifism work out for Europe's Jews. Perhaps if we do what we are told the Nazis will just beat us up a bit and take our money.

Not me.  I am going to make you pay if you want my neck.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Jmartyr

Quote from: Frank on September 22, 2020, 04:27:42 PM
Quote from: John Lamb on September 22, 2020, 03:54:46 PM
Men involved in assassination plots and war crimes are sons of the devil, no matter how Christian or Catholic they claim to be, and regardless of who calls them a saint. If your religion is just to add a bit of outward respectability to your public character then you're spiritually pagan, and if it's just for you to look down on your less religious neighbours you're a pharisee.
Would it have been wrong to "assassinate" Hitler. After all he was the
German  commander-in-chief. I would have thought he was a legitimate
target in WW2.
Devout Catholic. I read about him in the Remnant. Attempted an assassination on Hitler.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_von_Stauffenberg
"If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators." - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
" A false church cannot have a true mission." - St. Francis De Sales
" The way is open for us to deprive councils of their authority, contradict their acts freely, and profess confidently, whatever SEEMS to be true. " - Martin Luther

Greg

Like one of the two posts directly below if you think God is more offended by the pedo cover up in the Church in the 20th Century or the worst act of war that had a military outcome or objective.  Even if you think it was unjustified morally.  Rape of Nanking is not a military target, just bloodlust, but nukes on Japan and nighttime bombing of German cities are.  Say thanks for the option wartime killing versus, pedophiles in clergy, that offends God LEAST in your opinion.

Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Greg

One of the following.  Two nukes on Japan, assuming they caused the surrender.  Or blowing up the French Fleet.  Or carpet bombing Germany by Allies.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Greg

50 year pedophile cover up by Catholic Church.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Greg

#26
Quote from: Vetus Ordo link=topic=
The United States' role as "policeman of the world" is not a construct based on morality. It would still be state sanctioned murder.

I don't agree.  Cops can morally kill criminals more readily than citizens can due to the risk the cop is exposed to daily.  As the world's policeman the USA has given us 70 years without world war.  That isn't free.  America could perhaps have been a better policeman, but that is easy for Canada to say.  Try being a policeman. Would you want Italy, Saudi or China as policeman.  I would not.  The USA is the least worst option.


QuoteAn honorable peace deal could have been achieved without dropping any atomic bombs.

Monday morning quarterbacking.  At the time the US command didn't think so.  The fact they needed to vaporise 2 cities suggests the Japs were not ready to surrender.

God did not put you in charge.  He put them.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Greg

QuoteMoreover, assassinating Assad doesn't seem like a smart move

He did not assassinate him.   He considered it and decided not to.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Vetus Ordo

Quote from: Greg on September 22, 2020, 05:39:55 PM
Quote from: Vetus Ordo link=topic=The United States' role as "policeman of the world" is not a construct based on morality. It would still be state sanctioned murder.

I don't agree. Cops can morally kill criminals more readily than citizens can due to the risk the cop is exposed to daily.  As the world's policeman the USA has given us 70 years without world war.  That isn't free. America could perhaps have been a better policeman, but that is easy for Canada to say.  Try being a policeman. Would you want Italy, Saudi or China as policeman.  I would not.  The USA is the least worst option.

The figure of the "policeman of the world" is not a construct based on morality but on realpolitik, regardless of who performs the role.

The analogy with a real police force that exists to enforce the law of a given community doesn't really work.

QuoteMonday morning quarterbacking.  At the time the US command didn't think so.  The fact they needed to vaporise 2 cities suggests the Japs were not ready to surrender.

They were not ready to surrender unconditionally. That was my point.

QuoteGod did not put you in charge. He put them.

God puts all sorts of people in charge of the political, economic and military affairs of nations.

That doesn't mean we can't make any sort of judgment calls or analyze how things were done.

Quote from: Greg on September 22, 2020, 05:45:15 PM
QuoteMoreover, assassinating Assad doesn't seem like a smart move

He did not assassinate him.   He considered it and decided not to.

A good decision.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

dellery

#29
Quote from: John Lamb on September 22, 2020, 03:54:46 PM
Men involved in assassination plots and war crimes are sons of the devil, no matter how Christian or Catholic they claim to be, and regardless of who calls them a saint. If your religion is just to add a bit of outward respectability to your public character then you're spiritually pagan, and if it's just for you to look down on your less religious neighbours you're a pharisee.

[underlines added by me]
Looks like exactly what you're doing in this post.
Thankfully, nobody is bound by your judgements or "morality".
Blessed are those who plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

The closer you get to life the better death will be; the closer you get to death the better life will be.

Nous Defions
St. Phillip Neri, pray for us.