IVF - Encouragement Needed

TLM424 · August 22, 2018, 09:17:44 AM

Hi everyone, one of my best friends has been trying to have a baby for a few years without success. We communicate mostly via text and she mentioned to me yesterday that she is going to persue IVF and that she already had a consultation with a fertility doctor about it. I have previously expressed concerns I had over IVF to her but I never outright told her the Catholic Church is opposed to it and I'm unsure if she knows that on her own (she attends the NO). I responded to her text basically telling her that I cannot imagine the pain her and her husband have gone through with infertility but that it was important for her to know that IVF is considered a grave mortal sin in the Catholic Church. I explained that there are many reasons for this but the most serious of the issues is the fact that usually only the best embryos are put back in the woman and that weak embryos are typically discarded. I told her that when that occurs babies are essentially being killed. I added that I am just looking out for her and that it is not my intention to add more stress to her very stressful situation. I said that I would never judge her regardless of what decision she makes and I recommended that she talk to her priest about this for guidance. It was more well thought out then what I just wrote but that is essentially what I said. A few months ago she had told me that she was open to IVF if she had to do it because she didn't want to deprive herself of being a mom.

She hasn't replied to my response yet and I just need some encouragement that I did the right thing. I'm well aware that she may resent me, especially since I have children so I can't fully understand what she is going through. She probably feels like I'm intruding in on her life but I couldn't just stand by and not defend the church's stand on this, especially since loss of life of innocent babies will likely be involved. What kept running through my mind before sending the text was how Jesus had said, if the world hates you remember that it hated me first. I knew I had to do this but would appreciate encouragement that it was the right thing to do even if I lose my friendship over this. Thank you!

carmina laetitiae · August 22, 2018, 09:30:11 AM

That must've been an incredibly difficult text to type out, but it sounds like you did a great job. I hope she decides against pursuing IVF.

TLM424 · August 22, 2018, 09:36:24 AM

Quote from: carmina laetitiae on August 22, 2018, 09:30:11 AM
That must've been an incredibly difficult text to type out, but it sounds like you did a great job. I hope she decides against pursuing IVF.

Thank you! It was extremely difficult but I had a lot of encouragement from my husband and believe I received direction from the Holy Ghost.

Joanwalsingham · August 31, 2018, 12:29:19 AM

You did the right thing.

At least your conscience will be clear if she goes through with it.

Tales · August 31, 2018, 01:03:52 AM

I know the pain you are going through. A month ago a friend asked my opinion on abortion - I sensed this was an emotional subject for him so I responded carefully and made the case that abortion is killing human beings. He responded with a lengthy tirade, deriding and insulting me, and has stated he no longer will talk with me.

Pick up your cross. It was never going to be easy.

You did the right thing. Prayers for your friend that she does not go through with this.

The thought of living human beings being locked in a frozen state is horrific.

John Lamb · August 31, 2018, 02:19:08 AM

You definitely did the right thing. Keep her in your prayers and don't let it worry you.

PerEvangelicaDicta · August 31, 2018, 11:17:36 AM

Bravo, friend.
'How does this look in the light of Eternity?' We will all stand before Our Savior in judgment for every action or inaction. This should be on the plus side of the ledger for you!

TLM424 · August 31, 2018, 02:25:11 PM

Thank you everyone for your responses. I really needed to read them today. She responded to me a week ago saying that I had no right or obligation to push my views on her, whether they were religious or personal. I replied to her one last time trying to be cordial but I never took back or apologized for what I said. I noticed today that she unfriended me on Instagram and she must have blocked me too because I am no longer following her. I'm so sad about this and your responses have helped me. I will continue to pray that the Lord opens her eyes about the evils of IVF, but I have a feeling that even if He does (and I think He was trying to through me), she will choose to keep them shut since she is so desperate to be a mother. Thanks again.

TLM424 · August 31, 2018, 02:32:06 PM

Quote from: Davis Blank - EG on August 31, 2018, 01:03:52 AM
I know the pain you are going through. A month ago a friend asked my opinion on abortion - I sensed this was an emotional subject for him so I responded carefully and made the case that abortion is killing human beings. He responded with a lengthy tirade, deriding and insulting me, and has stated he no longer will talk with me.

Pick up your cross. It was never going to be easy.

You did the right thing. Prayers for your friend that she does not go through with this.

The thought of living human beings being locked in a frozen state is horrific.

I'm sorry to hear you recently went through something similar with your friend. IVF also typically involves abortions as well since the weak embryos or embryos with genetic disorders are typically discarded, or killed, and only the strongest embryos are transferred back to the womb or frozen. It makes me sick to my stomach. I was only trying to help open my friend's eyes but she sees it as me intruding in on her life when I should just keep my "opinions" to myself...

Traditionallyruralmom · September 06, 2018, 08:38:55 PM

I have been in this situation 2 times. In neither have I been able to talk the mother out of it. There is such a strong drive to have a baby at any cost, and society and most other christians encourage it entirely.

Josephine87 · September 06, 2018, 11:28:30 PM

So desperate to be a mother she's willing to kill her own children for it...that has the deep twisted irony of a folk tale.

Good for you for doing the right thing. I'm a coward so I always admire people who speak up and let the truth be known.

Greg · September 07, 2018, 12:35:03 AM

You have no right to push your views but she has a right to make children like lab rats and destroy the ones she does not need?

Thanks. " Mum ".

Welcome to the wacky world of rights and wrongs.

I don't know what was in that apple, but it really did screw up people's internal moral compasses.

Move on. Somewhere there is a woman who needs and will value a moral friend with a head on her shoulders. You are better off without a child murderer as a "friend".

By the way, for those of you who remember my story from earlier this year. I went to an orphanage in Kharkiv to give them a load of stuff and play nerf guns with the children and the Ukrianian woman who I went with, (she works for me) had been trying for a baby for 5 years and kept losing them. She is now 6 months pregnant and all is going well. I might have to drive 1600 miles to the baptism, as the gift will weight over 25 kg and probably contain substances you are not allowed to take on aeroplanes.

Tales · September 07, 2018, 01:12:31 AM

Quote from: Greg on September 07, 2018, 12:35:03 AM
You have no right to push your views but she has a right to make children like lab rats and destroy the ones she does not need.

Thanks. " Mum ".

Welcome to the wacky world of rights and wrongs.

I don't know what was in that apple, but it really did screw up people's internal moral compasses.

Move on. Somewhere there is a woman who needs and will value a moral friend with a head on her shoulders. You are better off without a child murderer as a "friend".

By the way, for those of you who remember my story from earlier this year. I went to an orphanage in Kharkiv to give them a load of stuff and play nerf guns with the children and the Ukrianian woman who I went with, (she works for me) had been trying for a baby for 5 years and kept losing them. She is now 6 months pregnant and all is going well. I might have to drive 1600 miles to the baptism, as the gift will weight over 25 kg and probably contain substances you are not allowed to take on aeroplanes.

"BREAKING NEWS: British man arrested driving across continent in car filled with illegal fireworks. Claims he was attending a baptism. In other news, middle eastern teenage gang rapists found not guilty by judge. 'They said they were sorry.' "

Greg · September 07, 2018, 02:37:30 AM

I have a health and safety rule in my house. No lighting of fireworks for the under twos.

I let a 9 year old Bulgarian boy light a rocket last Saturday and tomorrow he is coming around with his Dad to shoot an air-rifle I have borrowed.

You should have seen his face when he lit the rocket. He was so excited and so happy to be doing it with 50 adults watching him.

Gerard · September 07, 2018, 03:13:32 PM

This was the part that jumped out at me.

Quoteshe was open to IVF if she had to do it because she didn't want to deprive herself of being a mom.

In full disclosure, I'm looking at this mostly from the outside. Never been married, no kids. But I've been a son my whole life and watched a lot of things happen around me.

I think there is a mental illness running through society about what parenting is.

There is this strange notion that kids are an accessory or complement to YOUR life that is supposed to make it fulfilled.

I've noticed especially among the women that I dated and hung around with in my 20s or so, as they "settled down" they almost turned their kid or kids into idols.

The kid is what "gives their lives meaning." And I watch some of these women who used to consistently play hard to get and avoid serious, loving relationships intended on marriage with men, end up single mothers or married, but not to the guy who fathered the child. "Dad" becomes an add on and a "husband" to help her raise her kid. So he's only another complementary aid to the woman not "depriving" herself of this all important relationship.

I think its unhealthy. It has an "Everybody Loves Raymond" flavor to it but not that funny. And consequently, the son oftentimes becomes the love of the Mother's life. Husband? Meh....

Meanwhile sons grow up and want a significant relationship with a woman and the girl's complain "What am I His Mother?" because either he's been coddled by his mom all his life, or he's looking for something solid in the classic family construct with himself taking a leadership role as Husband and Father.

And the mother and daughter in law classically resent each other, because the mother gives the son a total commitment that the wife will not.

So, the son never gets the commitment from a wife or potential wife that he got from his mother. So, the father transfers his idolization of his mother, not to his wife, but onto his daughter if he has one.

And the woman never commits to a man as a serious partner because she's only fulfilled by becoming a mother.

Bishop Sheen often said, "A man marries a woman because he wants a wife. A woman marries a man because she wants a child." I think that model is slightly simplistic but accurate but I think it has become more of an extreme distortion over time.